Time and Location
Thursday, 2007-11-01 in #adium-devl
| PDT | MDT | CDT | EDT | CEST |
| 6 PM | 7 PM | 8 PM | 9 PM | 3 AM |
Agenda
- VV (A/V)
- Build system
- Status report
- Blog feedback
- Status of AIM voice/video code.
- Next Steps
- Come up with a final name for this. Voice/Video, Audio/Video, or something else.
- I would prefer some name without a / in it. - Chris
- Should we push #8181 and ship to get spaces issue fix out there faster?
- Status updates in general
- Clearspace X
- Leopard crash reporting
- @adiumx.com XMPP accounts (hal2k)
Attendance
Chris - Won't be able to make it. My drive home conflicts this week.
Log
[2007-11-02 01:52:31 +0100] <jas8522> hmm... perhaps something on Leopard crash reporting should be mentioned during the meeting
[2007-11-02 01:53:10 +0100] <edr1084> jas8522: you do have wiki edit you know... ;)
[2007-11-02 01:53:25 +0100] <durin42> edr1084: where is the vv meeting?
[2007-11-02 01:53:35 +0100] <jas8522> I will add it, but I know little! ;)
[2007-11-02 01:53:50 +0100] <edr1084> durin42: in here
[2007-11-02 01:54:40 +0100] <durin42> edr1084: coolio
[2007-11-02 01:54:59 +0100] <durin42> gr, I need to make it so that whenever NicePlayer is set to sit on top it's omnipresent.,
[2007-11-02 01:55:13 +0100] <zac> right click on it :P
[2007-11-02 01:56:55 +0100] <jas8522> speaking of spaces... I'm still confused as to the necessity of the show in ever space preference... that's available in system prefs anyway
[2007-11-02 01:57:02 +0100] <durin42> zac: that
[2007-11-02 01:57:13 +0100] <zac> jas8522: so only the contact list can stay in all spaces, not msg window
[2007-11-02 01:57:14 +0100] <durin42> zac: you'll notice I added the "make omnipresent" checkbox for the CL
[2007-11-02 01:57:18 +0100] <jas8522> ahhhh
[2007-11-02 01:58:30 +0100] <durin42> m
[2007-11-02 02:00:33 +0100] <durin42> btw, I'd like to state for the record that http://developer.apple.com/opensource/opensourceuniversalframework.html is for amateurs ;)
[2007-11-02 02:01:10 +0100] <cbarrett_work> durin42: need to blog your method and put it out there.
[2007-11-02 02:01:21 +0100] <durin42> cbarrett_work: yeah
[2007-11-02 02:02:10 +0100] <durin42> right now I need to focus my free cycles on getting us compiling
[2007-11-02 02:02:37 +0100] <edr1084> hey alan
[2007-11-02 02:02:47 +0100] <alangh> Hey there, am I on time?!?!?!
[2007-11-02 02:02:48 +0100] <durin42> cbarrett_work: is there a preprocessor directive GCC gives me that lets me see target CPU?
[2007-11-02 02:02:56 +0100] <edr1084> alangh: certainly
[2007-11-02 02:03:04 +0100] <alangh> I wasn't sure if I had the timezone right ;)
[2007-11-02 02:03:59 +0100] <edr1084> hmm... maybe I should call elliott and see if he's going to be joining us shortly
[2007-11-02 02:04:12 +0100] <durin42> he's on AIM, I'd expect him to be here
[2007-11-02 02:04:19 +0100] <cbarrett_work> durin42: #if defined(PPC) ?
[2007-11-02 02:04:20 +0100] <durin42> heck, he reminded me of the meeting
[2007-11-02 02:04:21 +0100] <edr1084> he's not responding
[2007-11-02 02:04:31 +0100] <durin42> cbarrett_work: something like that, yeah
[2007-11-02 02:04:58 +0100] <cbarrett_work> durin42: that was my suggestion.
[2007-11-02 02:05:03 +0100] <durin42> kk
[2007-11-02 02:05:41 +0100] <alangh> can you say.... overkill
[2007-11-02 02:05:43 +0100] <cbarrett_work> if it's preventing you from releasing yes
[2007-11-02 02:05:52 +0100] <jas8522> durin42: no, my MBP is coming tomorrow ;)
[2007-11-02 02:05:59 +0100] <cbarrett_work> get it out there first, and add the x86_64 versions later.
[2007-11-02 02:06:04 +0100] <durin42> hehe
[2007-11-02 02:06:23 +0100] <cbarrett_work> durin42: "in theory"
[2007-11-02 02:06:26 +0100] <durin42> I need to turn this into a bigger uberscript.
[2007-11-02 02:06:28 +0100] <cbarrett_work> just release the damn thing.
[2007-11-02 02:06:28 +0100] <durin42> In python.
[2007-11-02 02:07:09 +0100] <cbarrett_work> oh glib.
[2007-11-02 02:07:09 +0100] <durin42> and wtf, I can't put niceplayer on a non-1 screen
[2007-11-02 02:07:22 +0100] <cbarrett_work> failplayer.
[2007-11-02 02:07:40 +0100] <thrain42> they pulled some seriously nasty shit to make that all work
[2007-11-02 02:08:39 +0100] <alangh> So, the Wiki says that this is the starting time for our regular Adium meeting, but has the VV stuff as the first agenda item.. . Do we want to start the ballrolling now on our discussion:?
[2007-11-02 02:09:16 +0100] <edr1084> yeah, 2 sec and I'll poke elliott with a stick
[2007-11-02 02:09:32 +0100] <jas8522> sword phone?
[2007-11-02 02:09:45 +0100] <alangh> manung: Welcome!
[2007-11-02 02:09:59 +0100] <manung> alangh: thanks
[2007-11-02 02:11:13 +0100] <edr1084> alright, he's on his way home, augie if you'd like to start us off then be my guest sir
[2007-11-02 02:11:15 +0100] <hal2k> wow, so many people are 1h early ;)
[2007-11-02 02:11:35 +0100] <alangh> durin42: You have been talking about the build process, want to give us all an update on what remains to do
[2007-11-02 02:12:23 +0100] <durin42> Well, I've come up with a fairly non-nasty (for what they do) set of scripts that drop us a universal libpurple framework
[2007-11-02 02:12:48 +0100] <alangh> and is this buildable within xcode, or just via script
[2007-11-02 02:12:51 +0100] <durin42> One nice thing is we're now building with (almost) plain vanilla mtn HEAD for them
[2007-11-02 02:13:42 +0100] <hal2k> durin42: almost?
[2007-11-02 02:13:53 +0100] <durin42> hal2k: I had to hack their build a little
[2007-11-02 02:14:12 +0100] <alangh> that isnice.... What additional things had to be installed besides the mtn tree
[2007-11-02 02:14:20 +0100] <hal2k> durin42: can you apply a diff then?
[2007-11-02 02:14:24 +0100] <durin42> hal2k: yeah
[2007-11-02 02:14:28 +0100] <hal2k> good
[2007-11-02 02:14:32 +0100] <durin42> it's minor, and in our subversion
[2007-11-02 02:14:34 +0100] <alangh> do you by chance have a doc? (I amasking since my work is in the libpurple tree..)
[2007-11-02 02:14:45 +0100] <durin42> long-term, I want to fix their build system.
[2007-11-02 02:15:31 +0100] <alangh> durin42: perfect
[2007-11-02 02:15:34 +0100] <durin42> What I'm doing now is working to get our existing Adium building against my new frameworks. Once I manage that, I'll merge to trunk.
[2007-11-02 02:16:01 +0100] <durin42> then we can merge that work up to the -vv branch, and start working on building a vv version of pidgin
[2007-11-02 02:16:39 +0100] <alangh> that was my experience as well
[2007-11-02 02:16:48 +0100] <durin42> I'm afraid gstreamer will cost us a lot of build time once we get there
[2007-11-02 02:17:10 +0100] <edr1084> hopefully buildbot could save us from a little bit of that
[2007-11-02 02:17:19 +0100] <durin42> buildbot?
[2007-11-02 02:17:21 +0100] <alangh> since we don't need all of gstreamer, I am wondering if we can somehow segment it out.
[2007-11-02 02:17:35 +0100] <durin42> alangh: I'm hoping so, but for now, I just want to ship.
[2007-11-02 02:17:36 +0100] <alangh> (which might be dangerous)
[2007-11-02 02:17:45 +0100] <edr1084> durin42: on the mini, automated build system
[2007-11-02 02:17:57 +0100] <durin42> edr1084: not sure how that helps us with pidgin build problems
[2007-11-02 02:18:07 +0100] <edr1084> I meant the time cost
[2007-11-02 02:18:16 +0100] <durin42> ah
[2007-11-02 02:18:46 +0100] <edr1084> ohh
[2007-11-02 02:18:54 +0100] <alangh> I think we might need some of Sean's attention to the im.pidgin.pidgin.vv branch to help us with the issues we see (although I admit that I haven't tried building it on linux)
[2007-11-02 02:19:06 +0100] <durin42> it doesn't compile at all non-vv right now
[2007-11-02 02:19:11 +0100] <edr1084> he's been a ghost as of late
[2007-11-02 02:19:19 +0100] <durin42> I figured I might throw engineering effort at that once I get us working on a basic level
[2007-11-02 02:19:20 +0100] <edr1084> he hasn't responded to any of my emails
[2007-11-02 02:19:25 +0100] <alangh> poses as a ghost as well
[2007-11-02 02:19:40 +0100] <durin42> I want to get us up to the point where we can start working on getting gstreamer talking to a GUI
[2007-11-02 02:19:49 +0100] <alangh> that is a great goal
[2007-11-02 02:20:07 +0100] <durin42> Elliott and I are planning a hackdown to get us really far this saturday
[2007-11-02 02:21:07 +0100] <Mac-arena> Strange. TownCrier has no record of tonight's conversion.
[2007-11-02 02:21:39 +0100] <alangh> kicks TownCrier
[2007-11-02 02:22:06 +0100] <Mac-arena> durin42: What are you and Elliott going to be working on? Gstreamer?
[2007-11-02 02:22:17 +0100] <durin42> Mac-arena: long-term, yes
[2007-11-02 02:22:24 +0100] <Mac-arena> I meant Saturday.
[2007-11-02 02:22:27 +0100] <durin42> yeah
[2007-11-02 02:22:47 +0100] <hal2k> what's ndp?
[2007-11-02 02:22:51 +0100] <durin42> right now I need to get some conditional compilation stuff in
[2007-11-02 02:23:03 +0100] <hal2k> ah
[2007-11-02 02:23:37 +0100] <elliott> 'ello loves
[2007-11-02 02:23:48 +0100] <durin42> 'ello elliott
[2007-11-02 02:23:49 +0100] <elliott> alllrighty, where are we?
[2007-11-02 02:23:57 +0100] <alangh> Since I have work to do in libpurple, I was hoping for an integrated XCode project to build the framework... I have a basic file, but it just has the sources grouped, but does not build
[2007-11-02 02:24:07 +0100] <durin42> I was introducing people to the great build system
[2007-11-02 02:24:14 +0100] <elliott> Ah, great.
[2007-11-02 02:24:22 +0100] <durin42> alangh: we're not going to use an Xcode project this time
[2007-11-02 02:24:37 +0100] <elliott> alangh: That's not entirely impossible with this new system, but our primary way of building it will not be using Xcode.
[2007-11-02 02:24:40 +0100] <durin42> I've found it's masking upstream problems.
[2007-11-02 02:25:04 +0100] <elliott> We can totally make a Xcode project that references the source and runs a script to build libpurple though. :shrug:
[2007-11-02 02:25:12 +0100] <alangh> right... The good news is that I can set my xcode project to use a script build... I won't have all the features of the build
[2007-11-02 02:25:36 +0100] <durin42> truth
[2007-11-02 02:25:50 +0100] <alangh> so, once you have the script ready, I will point my xcode project at it, and that way we won't have 2 build systems
[2007-11-02 02:25:54 +0100] <durin42> *nod*
[2007-11-02 02:26:03 +0100] <alangh> which == good
[2007-11-02 02:26:05 +0100] <durin42> just not the vv branch
[2007-11-02 02:26:17 +0100] <alangh> perfect
[2007-11-02 02:26:55 +0100] <elliott> not sure i you guys covered this but alangh would it be possible for you to check all of your work into some branch whether it be on adiumvv or adium itself like... now?
[2007-11-02 02:27:01 +0100] <edr1084> durin42: I'm assuming you've messed with the pidgin_update script?
[2007-11-02 02:27:11 +0100] <durin42> edr1084: not even touched it
[2007-11-02 02:27:51 +0100] <alangh> I have been debating whether to check my changes in using mtn (which would require some permissions from the pidgin team) or just put them into our branch and submit a patch once we are done
[2007-11-02 02:27:58 +0100] <edr1084> well the script should pull down the latest pidgin from mtn and then copy it into libpurple
[2007-11-02 02:28:01 +0100] <hal2k> durin42: agreed
[2007-11-02 02:28:12 +0100] <alangh> agreed
[2007-11-02 02:28:18 +0100] <durin42> hal2k: it's not as bad now that I'm familiar with parts of it
[2007-11-02 02:28:40 +0100] <hal2k> the big problem is that everyone who wants to build has to download a 200MB database to get going
[2007-11-02 02:28:44 +0100] <alangh> once you get past the multi-gigabyte install
[2007-11-02 02:29:14 +0100] <Mac-arena> darcs is tasty.
[2007-11-02 02:29:33 +0100] <alangh> so after the purple and gstreamer builds, what are your next hurdles
[2007-11-02 02:29:35 +0100] <Mac-arena> I'm really loving darcs.
[2007-11-02 02:29:45 +0100] <alangh> long live SCCS
[2007-11-02 02:29:56 +0100] <durin42> Mac-arena: aim pls, tangent conversation
[2007-11-02 02:30:40 +0100] <alangh> durin42: well your help is invaluable!
[2007-11-02 02:30:49 +0100] <durin42> right now it just sorta rebuilds stuff willy nilly
[2007-11-02 02:31:33 +0100] <elliott> alangh: Once we've gotten everything building using the new system and using libpurple.vv, I want to try and write the bridge code that will let us attempt to use Sean's media code.
[2007-11-02 02:32:09 +0100] <alangh> elliott: that will be perfect... I will want to collaborate on that design with you so that I can use the same type of bridge for the AIM path
[2007-11-02 02:32:11 +0100] <hal2k> he hasn't tried it at all, right?
[2007-11-02 02:32:17 +0100] <durin42> don't think os
[2007-11-02 02:32:17 +0100] <elliott> hal2k: correct.
[2007-11-02 02:32:19 +0100] <durin42> *so
[2007-11-02 02:32:35 +0100] <elliott> ^
[2007-11-02 02:33:03 +0100] <alangh> although since it is based on libjingle there is a solid foundation behind it, so we may just have a few rough edges as it integrates with purple
[2007-11-02 02:33:11 +0100] <durin42> is it based on libjingle?
[2007-11-02 02:33:15 +0100] <elliott> yes.
[2007-11-02 02:33:27 +0100] <alangh> durin42: that was my understanding
[2007-11-02 02:33:33 +0100] <elliott> alangh: Are you familiar with Farsight at all?
[2007-11-02 02:33:37 +0100] <hal2k> it doesn't implement jingle, though :(
[2007-11-02 02:33:58 +0100] <alangh> elliott: only that it is an extension of gstreamer with other additions that we might not really need
[2007-11-02 02:34:12 +0100] <hal2k> I don't think we'd really need farsight
[2007-11-02 02:34:20 +0100] <elliott> well, news flash: we do
[2007-11-02 02:34:43 +0100] <alangh> ugh
[2007-11-02 02:34:49 +0100] <elliott> it's providing RTP
[2007-11-02 02:35:03 +0100] <alangh> sees a 300MB application once we get all this together
[2007-11-02 02:35:07 +0100] <elliott> heh
[2007-11-02 02:35:22 +0100] <eitanko> alangh: the people want vv right?
[2007-11-02 02:35:32 +0100] <elliott> Farsight is the RTP side of this bad-boy.
[2007-11-02 02:35:35 +0100] <edr1084> alangh: like you said, build it, make it work, then optimize
[2007-11-02 02:35:37 +0100] <eitanko> they made no comments about how much they are willing to download
[2007-11-02 02:35:44 +0100] <elliott> since that is NOT an integrated part of Gstreamer.
[2007-11-02 02:35:47 +0100] <alangh> eitanko:point taken
[2007-11-02 02:35:48 +0100] <hal2k> right, looks like farsight is the connection between all the components
[2007-11-02 02:36:00 +0100] <Mac-arena> alangh: "Why is it that all my Finder icons in this window are 48x48, except for Adium, which is 512x512?" "Because it's just that big."
[2007-11-02 02:36:01 +0100] <alangh> that is its goal
[2007-11-02 02:36:29 +0100] <elliott> well, the way Sean has designed the API for Media in libpurple, it is using Farsight and Gstreamer extensively (obvious)
[2007-11-02 02:36:47 +0100] <alangh> ok, so we might needs more of durin42's help to get the farsight build integrated into the framework
[2007-11-02 02:36:51 +0100] <elliott> so anything that we design (i.e. AIM compat.) should be using that API, and thus be based around the same thing.
[2007-11-02 02:36:56 +0100] <alangh> right
[2007-11-02 02:36:56 +0100] <elliott> alangh: we've already accounted for that.
[2007-11-02 02:36:58 +0100] <durin42> alangh: that's on my hitlist
[2007-11-02 02:37:08 +0100] <alangh> elliott: why did I doubt ;)
[2007-11-02 02:37:11 +0100] <elliott> :)
[2007-11-02 02:37:56 +0100] <alangh> well, let me give an update then
[2007-11-02 02:38:02 +0100] <elliott> so that I can look at how it will fit in with the media API, and what the bridge will need to allow for, what needs to change in Adium, etc.
[2007-11-02 02:38:44 +0100] <alangh> I have started all of this on a Fire codebase which shares a common ancestor with the Oscar implementation in libpurple
[2007-11-02 02:39:05 +0100] <elliott> faim yes?
[2007-11-02 02:39:07 +0100] <alangh> the main differences are the memory management and some of the logging and networking calls
[2007-11-02 02:39:39 +0100] <elliott> libpurple.vv ?
[2007-11-02 02:39:47 +0100] <alangh> I have not committed any of it, but it falls into 3 categories of work
[2007-11-02 02:40:19 +0100] <hal2k> libpurple needs a generic API for that
[2007-11-02 02:40:37 +0100] <alangh> the grief with that one is that we now have 38 capabilities, and it will no longer fit in the bit field that libpurple is using
[2007-11-02 02:40:52 +0100] <elliott> fun
[2007-11-02 02:41:02 +0100] <alangh> so I had to abstract the aim capabilities to have it make a call instead of just using an OR flag after that
[2007-11-02 02:41:32 +0100] <Mac-arena> Something like user_has_capability("video")?
[2007-11-02 02:41:41 +0100] <elliott> how hard would it be to modify it to work with a longer bitfield?
[2007-11-02 02:41:46 +0100] <alangh> the idea of abstracting capabilities is something we need, and I have not yet pulled it to the top level
[2007-11-02 02:41:49 +0100] <elliott> I mean, that's the obvious solution right?
[2007-11-02 02:42:00 +0100] <durin42> elliott: obvious, but I think that's probably not the correct one.
[2007-11-02 02:42:07 +0100] <alangh> elliott: right, but libpurple is set to run with at 32bit int
[2007-11-02 02:42:45 +0100] <elliott> ok
[2007-11-02 02:42:49 +0100] <alangh> Mac-arena: we do need to pass these capabilities to the UI portion, so I will work on an abstraction there
[2007-11-02 02:43:10 +0100] <alangh> Portion 2) ICBMpackets
[2007-11-02 02:45:53 +0100] <hal2k> ICE is not an option for AIM, right?
[2007-11-02 02:46:03 +0100] <alangh> Once the information is passed back and forth between the clients about the desire to connect and the various IP addresses available, both sides attempt to start a SIP session, by taking turns at a SIP INVITE
[2007-11-02 02:46:42 +0100] <eitanko> how does that work?
[2007-11-02 02:47:13 +0100] <hal2k> alangh: maybe it's possible to check if the other one uses adium, too, and use a better traversal system in that case?
[2007-11-02 02:47:21 +0100] <alangh> eitanko: in a nutshell, the person initiating the chat has their client try a SIP INVITE to each of the IP addresses provided by the remote host
[2007-11-02 02:47:50 +0100] <eitanko> alangh: oh sorry, i misread your initial remark...
[2007-11-02 02:47:54 +0100] <hal2k> alangh: or rather, s/adium/libpurple/
[2007-11-02 02:48:06 +0100] <alangh> hal2k: the AIM protocol is just as effective as ICE
[2007-11-02 02:48:10 +0100] <hal2k> ah ok
[2007-11-02 02:48:11 +0100] <eitanko> right to possibly have opened the remote port on the other side?
[2007-11-02 02:48:25 +0100] <durin42> btw, I have Adium down to 14 errors now :)
[2007-11-02 02:48:31 +0100] <alangh> right... you can think of it as all sides trying everything they can to find one connection that works
[2007-11-02 02:48:41 +0100] <eitanko> durin42: nice
[2007-11-02 02:49:06 +0100] <durin42> arg, and we use private headers, lameness.
[2007-11-02 02:49:09 +0100] <alangh> the piece I still need to decode is the STP packet... I have examples of what iChat/AIM send, but I have not yet decoded it all
[2007-11-02 02:49:52 +0100] <elliott> alright then
[2007-11-02 02:50:00 +0100] <alangh> and also transfer information about which ports to use for RTP ... and then the whole both sides try every address thing happens all over again for the 4 ports used to get voice and video going
[2007-11-02 02:50:02 +0100] <hal2k> alangh: is the official client compatible to ichat right now?
[2007-11-02 02:50:09 +0100] <alangh> yes it is
[2007-11-02 02:50:44 +0100] <hal2k> that's a bit dated
[2007-11-02 02:50:55 +0100] <alangh> note that there are 2 outbound RTP sessions (voice and video)
[2007-11-02 02:52:07 +0100] <hal2k> are they kept in sync in some way?
[2007-11-02 02:52:11 +0100] <alangh> - Machine capability calculations (more on this in a sec)
[2007-11-02 02:52:14 +0100] <elliott> i'm sure they are timestamped
[2007-11-02 02:52:35 +0100] <alangh> hal2k: rtcp helps with the control and rtp has a timestamp
[2007-11-02 02:52:46 +0100] <hal2k> ah ok
[2007-11-02 02:53:14 +0100] <alangh> - Integration out to the UI (for start/stop/capture/display) this is where elliotts excellent work comes in
[2007-11-02 02:53:42 +0100] <eitanko> what does that entail?
[2007-11-02 02:53:49 +0100] <elliott> alangh: That should be fairly easy.
[2007-11-02 02:54:01 +0100] <alangh> Somehow, iChat calculates the machine speed(not to hard) and the overall network speed as seen on the internet(the hard one)
[2007-11-02 02:54:14 +0100] <elliott> oof
[2007-11-02 02:54:22 +0100] <alangh> it uses that data to determine the frame rate it negotiates with the other side
[2007-11-02 02:54:34 +0100] <elliott> interesting.
[2007-11-02 02:54:36 +0100] <durin42> maybe we can just trust the user to pick the right thing in their QuickTime settings and then adapt as we go down the road?
[2007-11-02 02:54:38 +0100] <eitanko> cant it figure that out while it does the setup tries?
[2007-11-02 02:54:39 +0100] <alangh> (and in iChat 3,it is used to determine if you can do the multi user chat
[2007-11-02 02:54:59 +0100] <elliott> alangh: Are you sure that is a network thing?
[2007-11-02 02:55:06 +0100] <Mac-arena> alangh: Start flooding the remote side and stop after one second? :)
[2007-11-02 02:55:16 +0100] <elliott> I'm almost positive it was just a machine thing.
[2007-11-02 02:55:41 +0100] <alangh> elliott: yes it calculates the network speed, there are some commands to have iChat go into debugging mode and it spits out a whole bunch of useful hints
[2007-11-02 02:55:48 +0100] <elliott> interesting
[2007-11-02 02:55:54 +0100] <alangh> whether it uses the information is another story
[2007-11-02 02:56:07 +0100] <elliott> I think we need to really test that.
[2007-11-02 02:56:22 +0100] <alangh> right
[2007-11-02 02:56:23 +0100] <elliott> unless anyone knows for sure that that happens.
[2007-11-02 02:56:36 +0100] <hal2k> maybe somebody can ask someone from the ichat team?
[2007-11-02 02:56:51 +0100] <elliott> but I always thought, and evidence seemed to support that it was just if your computer could handle it, it would try it.
[2007-11-02 02:57:13 +0100] <alangh> Hyeonkuk Jeong was useful..... The command to get the debug information was run /Applications/iChat.app/Contents/MacOS/iChat -errorLogLevel 7
[2007-11-02 02:58:00 +0100] <elliott> Ok, so since were running out of time, here's what I'd like to have happen.
[2007-11-02 02:58:55 +0100] <edr1084> no, I pulled it down and copied it in there manually
[2007-11-02 02:59:01 +0100] <elliott> Ok, fantastic.
[2007-11-02 02:59:13 +0100] <Mac-arena> Can't have an svn:external to a mtn repo. ;)
[2007-11-02 02:59:21 +0100] <elliott> I'd like for us to pull down a copy of pidgin.vv, and get it into our repo.
[2007-11-02 02:59:33 +0100] <hal2k> why?
[2007-11-02 02:59:36 +0100] <elliott> and then Alan, asap, I'd like you to start migrating pieces of it into it.
[2007-11-02 02:59:50 +0100] <alangh> I like the idea of getting the purple part into SVN because we don't want to force everyone to use mtn
[2007-11-02 03:00:08 +0100] <durin42> elliott: the pidgin guys will be a lot happier if we all just bite the bullet and learn mtn
[2007-11-02 03:00:18 +0100] <cbarrett_work> It is dumb to have our downstream of libpurple in something other than MTN
[2007-11-02 03:00:32 +0100] <alangh> but we are not doing this for the pidgin guys....
[2007-11-02 03:00:34 +0100] <edr1084> that's not a debate for right now
[2007-11-02 03:00:51 +0100] <Mac-arena> durin42: Or say "hey, let's all switch to this other VCS that kicks both their asses"
[2007-11-02 03:00:52 +0100] <cbarrett_work> alangh: so you're saying we shouldn't contribute any fixes back? that's also not cool either.
[2007-11-02 03:00:58 +0100] <edr1084> guys
[2007-11-02 03:01:12 +0100] <alangh> good point
[2007-11-02 03:01:20 +0100] <elliott> right, the point is we want a copy of pidgin.vv that we can push really radical changes into that they probably won't care about JUST SO WE CAN SEE WHAT WE'VE GOT.
[2007-11-02 03:01:36 +0100] <durin42> ah, ok
[2007-11-02 03:01:39 +0100] <elliott> but we need to see these changes and see them asap.
[2007-11-02 03:01:40 +0100] <durin42> I misunderstood
[2007-11-02 03:01:58 +0100] <elliott> so that we can start designing some API
[2007-11-02 03:02:14 +0100] <edr1084> elliott: I can do that tonight, you should have it by the time I go to bed unless someone else really wants to do it and does so sooner
[2007-11-02 03:02:25 +0100] <elliott> that'd be awesome.
[2007-11-02 03:02:56 +0100] <alangh> and that will be in the adium-2.0-vv branch
[2007-11-02 03:03:04 +0100] <edr1084> yup
[2007-11-02 03:03:07 +0100] <alangh> elliott: I will try and get that done
[2007-11-02 03:03:07 +0100] <elliott> right.
[2007-11-02 03:04:13 +0100] <alangh> (and I will try my best to match what Sean did for the pidgin gtalk API to make that easier)
[2007-11-02 03:04:29 +0100] <elliott> Presumably before this all occurs, we'll have a version of Adium building with everything it needs for AV, since that should be done sometime this weekend.
[2007-11-02 03:04:31 +0100] <hal2k> alangh: I don't think they'd accept anything else
[2007-11-02 03:04:53 +0100] <elliott> hal2k: right now, we don't need them to accept what we've got.
[2007-11-02 03:05:07 +0100] <hal2k> we should aim for that in the long term
[2007-11-02 03:05:10 +0100] <elliott> we need to take what we've got and make it acceptable going forward.
[2007-11-02 03:06:26 +0100] <alangh> I am glad we are on a path to make this work so that we live up to the hype: (We made ARS Technica as an article yesterday): http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/10/30/adium-2-0-in-the-works-av-functionality-forthcoming
[2007-11-02 03:06:53 +0100] <eitanko> btw, did we cover "Blog feedback"
[2007-11-02 03:06:57 +0100] <Mac-arena> elliott: What about having Alan get access to a Pidgin branch for VV development? (Or even the main branch)
[2007-11-02 03:06:57 +0100] <hal2k> elliott: submitting the code once it's finished is much easier when you use mtn
[2007-11-02 03:07:08 +0100] <elliott> and alangh if you could write up some information about how I can help you, that'd be peachy too.
[2007-11-02 03:07:09 +0100] <hal2k> elliott: you'd get the whole history inside the official repository at once
[2007-11-02 03:07:20 +0100] <alangh> The good news is that Sean has been very approachable as we have talked about this project
[2007-11-02 03:07:24 +0100] <Mac-arena> Yeah, what hal2k said.
[2007-11-02 03:07:40 +0100] <alangh> He and I have already had some good debates
[2007-11-02 03:07:53 +0100] <elliott> Mac-arena: I know that's possible, but I want to clean up and have some knowledge of what we have before we start putting things into vcs.
[2007-11-02 03:08:00 +0100] <alangh> So I want to make this so that purple comes out of it supporting VV for AIM/Jabber/Yahoo
[2007-11-02 03:08:04 +0100] <hal2k> mtn was designed for offsite-development and merging into a main tree
[2007-11-02 03:08:08 +0100] <elliott> s/into vcs/upstream
[2007-11-02 03:08:58 +0100] <Mac-arena> elliott: Sounds like a branch.
[2007-11-02 03:09:03 +0100] <alangh> MSN won't work on the Mac.... (at least unless we can run an Intel DLL that we steal from Windows (like MPlayer does)
[2007-11-02 03:09:15 +0100] <Mac-arena> If they want in their main branch, they can just merge it over.
[2007-11-02 03:09:22 +0100] <hal2k> alangh: use wine?
[2007-11-02 03:09:27 +0100] <alangh> they use a CODEC which is patented and proprietary
[2007-11-02 03:09:33 +0100] <elliott> Mac-arena: Think of it like backing up all of Alan's work, but at the same time letting me see it so that I know what we need to write.
[2007-11-02 03:09:51 +0100] <alangh> and the company in Israel who developed it is not interested in talking....
[2007-11-02 03:09:57 +0100] <Mac-arena> elliott: You would, I'd think, be able to pull it yourself.
[2007-11-02 03:10:22 +0100] <elliott> Alan, I'm going to leave this decision up to you, since it's your work.
[2007-11-02 03:10:28 +0100] <durin42> what about flip4mac?
[2007-11-02 03:10:46 +0100] <alangh> distributed VCS doesn't make any sort of sense on a project when we are all connected to the network all the time (what kind of IM testing would you do without the internet)
[2007-11-02 03:11:02 +0100] <cbarrett_work> argh, that's not the point of a dvcs at all, but whatever.
[2007-11-02 03:11:07 +0100] <hal2k> alangh: try to talk to the pidgin folks about that :)
[2007-11-02 03:11:09 +0100] <cbarrett_work> Do not have time to explain this again.
[2007-11-02 03:11:12 +0100] <edr1084> again... not the time
[2007-11-02 03:11:41 +0100] <elliott> Ok, so in that case, Eric, can you get Alan a copy of pidgin.vv on our branch and Alan can you start submitting things to it?
[2007-11-02 03:11:49 +0100] <alangh> will do
[2007-11-02 03:11:51 +0100] <edr1084> yeah, I can
[2007-11-02 03:11:57 +0100] <elliott> Awesome.
[2007-11-02 03:12:29 +0100] <alangh> and don't worry folks - I am doing the dev in my copy of the mtn repository so I can check it in there
[2007-11-02 03:13:23 +0100] <Mac-arena> On to blog feedback?
[2007-11-02 03:13:26 +0100] <alangh> (or at least create a patch that someone else can apply)
[2007-11-02 03:13:26 +0100] <elliott> and Alan, asap try to get Sean to give you access to Pidgin.vv?
[2007-11-02 03:13:42 +0100] <jas8522> Mac-arena: I concur
[2007-11-02 03:14:06 +0100] <alangh> elliott: I will shoot Sean a message to see what his thoughts are there
[2007-11-02 03:14:10 +0100] <elliott> Blog feedback seemed good to me, but I think we just need to put it behind us now and keep up the good work.
[2007-11-02 03:14:14 +0100] <edr1084> alright, so basically everyone probably saw the last two blog posts about the v/v progress
[2007-11-02 03:14:17 +0100] <elliott> alangh: great, I'd like access too, so :P
[2007-11-02 03:14:37 +0100] <edr1084> and yeah, it was highly positive
[2007-11-02 03:14:37 +0100] <cbarrett_work> branch pidgin.vv and then publish your changes -- they can pull from you.
[2007-11-02 03:14:53 +0100] <Mac-arena> http://www.adiumx.com/blog/2007/10/happy-leopard-day.php
[2007-11-02 03:15:24 +0100] <edr1084> in the second post I tried to address the major issues that came up after the first
[2007-11-02 03:15:47 +0100] <elliott> Any other thoughts about them?
[2007-11-02 03:15:49 +0100] <Mac-arena> Geeeez. 49 comments on Happy Leopard Day; 20 on the other one.
[2007-11-02 03:15:50 +0100] <edr1084> it's since been covered by most of the major mac blogs, as well as hitting #3 overall on digg
[2007-11-02 03:16:24 +0100] <Mac-arena> It already was; we just now have 69 reminders of it. ;)
[2007-11-02 03:16:39 +0100] <edr1084> but I also agree with elliott, we should let that put some wind in our sails and continue on
[2007-11-02 03:16:46 +0100] <Mac-arena> "Skype chat please! More important than all the rest!" <-Good luck with that
[2007-11-02 03:16:54 +0100] <edr1084> yeah, won't happen
[2007-11-02 03:17:29 +0100] <elliott> Alright, I think we are done then?
[2007-11-02 03:17:34 +0100] <cbarrett_work> I wontfixed the skype bug.
[2007-11-02 03:17:42 +0100] <elliott> awesome.
[2007-11-02 03:17:55 +0100] <The_Tick> heya folks
[2007-11-02 03:18:01 +0100] <elliott> Hi The_Tick :)
[2007-11-02 03:18:02 +0100] <edr1084> as far as the name... I'm not sure that we need to deal with that atm
[2007-11-02 03:18:06 +0100] <The_Tick> what'd I miss :P
[2007-11-02 03:18:11 +0100] <Mac-arena> Whole bunch of inane comments on Happy Leopard Day. "make fails for me; any idea?" "will it work in MSN?" etc.
[2007-11-02 03:18:11 +0100] <elliott> edr1084: Let's not. ;)
[2007-11-02 03:18:13 +0100] <The_Tick> edr1084: ya, was just to get the thinking started
[2007-11-02 03:18:17 +0100] <edr1084> The_Tick: you can read the logs later ;)
[2007-11-02 03:18:22 +0100] <cbarrett_work> It is pretty clear that the libpurple/pidgin people do not want plugins released using the Skype API, since that is a) probably a violation of the GPL and b) they don't want it to be released, be polite.
[2007-11-02 03:18:23 +0100] <The_Tick> edr1084: indeed
[2007-11-02 03:18:31 +0100] <jas8522> it seems that we're on to the new name for VV?
[2007-11-02 03:18:34 +0100] <edr1084> The_Tick: I believe I already brought that up in an email
[2007-11-02 03:18:46 +0100] <The_Tick> cbarrett_work: ya, they're adament
[2007-11-02 03:18:59 +0100] <Mac-arena> And nobody uses Skype anyway.
[2007-11-02 03:19:14 +0100] <The_Tick> Mac-arena: #adium
[2007-11-02 03:19:18 +0100] <edr1084> indeed
[2007-11-02 03:19:21 +0100] <jas8522> hah
[2007-11-02 03:19:29 +0100] <elliott> I will say one thing about the name deal, I don't want to use Adium VV, or really include VV in the name at all.
[2007-11-02 03:19:30 +0100] <alangh> jas8522: for now, we can still call it vv... and perhaps have a contest for naming this new thing
[2007-11-02 03:19:37 +0100] <Mac-arena> I love how you're actually explaining it to me.
[2007-11-02 03:19:47 +0100] <The_Tick> stabs Mac-arena
[2007-11-02 03:19:49 +0100] <elliott> Whenever I say I work on anything involving VV, people are always confused about what it stands for.
[2007-11-02 03:20:08 +0100] <cbarrett_work> Let's just call it Adium 2.0
[2007-11-02 03:20:11 +0100] <alangh> elliott: good point
[2007-11-02 03:20:15 +0100] <The_Tick> cbarrett_work: I agree
[2007-11-02 03:20:18 +0100] <elliott> This will translate to the client if we name it as such.
[2007-11-02 03:20:23 +0100] <The_Tick> but I was talking about the feature
[2007-11-02 03:20:23 +0100] <Mac-arena> cbarrett: And let's rename the folder in Application Support to reflect that.
[2007-11-02 03:20:26 +0100] <The_Tick> not the app name
[2007-11-02 03:20:28 +0100] <cbarrett_work> The_Tick: ahh
[2007-11-02 03:20:38 +0100] <The_Tick> nobody knows what vv is
[2007-11-02 03:20:38 +0100] <cbarrett_work> the feature "AV Support"
[2007-11-02 03:20:40 +0100] <The_Tick> or av
[2007-11-02 03:20:40 +0100] <jas8522> yeah 2.0 seems good
[2007-11-02 03:20:46 +0100] <elliott> Oh, well then I'm incredibly behind AV.
[2007-11-02 03:20:50 +0100] <The_Tick> everyone who asked me at barcamp just said "video"
[2007-11-02 03:20:52 +0100] <eitanko> we should call the feature "Quack" as that is how ducks communicate
[2007-11-02 03:20:55 +0100] <Mac-arena> How about "Video chat"?
[2007-11-02 03:20:56 +0100] <The_Tick> some said voice chat
[2007-11-02 03:20:59 +0100] <elliott> that's pretty much a no brainer to me.
[2007-11-02 03:20:59 +0100] <The_Tick> Mac-arena: that works
[2007-11-02 03:21:02 +0100] <edr1084> so much for skipping the name debate...
[2007-11-02 03:21:05 +0100] <alangh> :)
[2007-11-02 03:21:10 +0100] <Mac-arena> "Video chat"/"voice chat", whichever applies
[2007-11-02 03:21:17 +0100] <elliott> Audio / Video chat.
[2007-11-02 03:21:36 +0100] <hal2k> Adium AV :)
[2007-11-02 03:21:39 +0100] <jas8522> multimedia
[2007-11-02 03:21:41 +0100] <edr1084> so 1.1.4...
[2007-11-02 03:21:46 +0100] <Mac-arena> jas8522: So 1995.
[2007-11-02 03:21:49 +0100] <jas8522> haha
[2007-11-02 03:21:52 +0100] <cbarrett_work> Multimedia User-Centered Communication Experience.
[2007-11-02 03:21:53 +0100] <Mac-arena> "Adium 2.0, now for MPCs with Mac OS X"
[2007-11-02 03:21:53 +0100] <jas8522> oh man
[2007-11-02 03:21:54 +0100] <elliott> Hahahaha.
[2007-11-02 03:21:56 +0100] <edr1084> guys
[2007-11-02 03:22:07 +0100] <Mac-arena> edr1084: Who is not chilled?
[2007-11-02 03:22:09 +0100] <alangh> How about "Advanced Multi-User near-tactile audible-experience containing visual elements"
[2007-11-02 03:22:12 +0100] <jas8522> yeah so.. 1.1.4... I'm rather in favor of pushing at least a beta now
[2007-11-02 03:22:21 +0100] <cbarrett_work> As far as I know, 1.1.4 is being driven entirely by Evan.
[2007-11-02 03:22:24 +0100] <elliott> Anyhow, we've gone far over our time, I'd like to defer to the Adium meeting now.
[2007-11-02 03:22:27 +0100] <cbarrett_work> So you should talk to him about schedule.
[2007-11-02 03:22:30 +0100] <The_Tick> alangh: how about "remote amateur porno"
[2007-11-02 03:22:35 +0100] <jas8522> lol
[2007-11-02 03:22:44 +0100] <zac> 1.1.4 is ready for beta; pixelized buddy icons <<<<<<<<<<<< spaces not working at all
[2007-11-02 03:22:55 +0100] <jas8522> yeah that was my thought as well
[2007-11-02 03:23:02 +0100] <Mac-arena> The_Tick: Haha
[2007-11-02 03:23:11 +0100] <jas8522> if Evan absolutely needed to have it fixed by now he'd have used his magical powers
[2007-11-02 03:23:18 +0100] <cbarrett_work> (not having evan at these meetings decreases their usefulness at some points)
[2007-11-02 03:23:20 +0100] <The_Tick> let's push it
[2007-11-02 03:23:30 +0100] <jas8522> plus, the buddy icons technically have a (poor) workaround
[2007-11-02 03:23:42 +0100] <hal2k> what workaround?
[2007-11-02 03:23:51 +0100] <The_Tick> hal2k: not looking at icons
[2007-11-02 03:23:55 +0100] <jas8522> ask your contacts to reload their picture
[2007-11-02 03:23:56 +0100] <Mac-arena> #8181 is pixelated buddy icons.
[2007-11-02 03:24:01 +0100] <hal2k> that's a good workaround
[2007-11-02 03:24:13 +0100] <jas8522> well... it's something you can't do yourself
[2007-11-02 03:24:15 +0100] <Mac-arena> I'm not seeing what it has to do with Spaces.
[2007-11-02 03:24:21 +0100] <jas8522> and who wants to ask the ex girlfriend...?
[2007-11-02 03:24:28 +0100] <cbarrett_work> What if 1.1.4 wiped the user icon cache?
[2007-11-02 03:24:34 +0100] <jas8522> it doesn't work
[2007-11-02 03:24:35 +0100] <cbarrett_work> and requested everything from scratch?
[2007-11-02 03:24:36 +0100] <jas8522> I can't explain why
[2007-11-02 03:24:46 +0100] <cbarrett_work> uh,?
[2007-11-02 03:24:48 +0100] <jas8522> I tried that manually... for some reason it grabs them again but they're pixelated
[2007-11-02 03:24:54 +0100] <edr1084> jas8522: look at my ticket about the small icons... SAME thing ;)
[2007-11-02 03:24:56 +0100] <jas8522> I think it might have something to do with them still having the same name
[2007-11-02 03:25:14 +0100] <The_Tick> Mac-arena: another ticket
[2007-11-02 03:25:24 +0100] <cbarrett_work> I'm heading out soon, btw
[2007-11-02 03:25:57 +0100] <jas8522> when the contact resets the picture, a new name for the image file is generated (at least in MSN) ... and it works fine
[2007-11-02 03:26:21 +0100] <cbarrett_work> jas8522: Why can't we force a new name to be generated or something? That sounds like something we can do.
[2007-11-02 03:26:30 +0100] <jas8522> yeah
[2007-11-02 03:26:43 +0100] <edr1084> so it's sounding like we're all in favor of pushing a beta, The_Tick how bout you email evan about that and see what he has to say, and then we go for it, sound good?
[2007-11-02 03:27:05 +0100] <jas8522> is there plans for a 1.1.5? Or straight skip to 1.2?
[2007-11-02 03:27:30 +0100] <Mac-arena> I believe we're not supposed to be talking about #8181, actually. ;)
[2007-11-02 03:27:53 +0100] <jas8522> they're done?
[2007-11-02 03:28:08 +0100] <Mac-arena> I believe so.
[2007-11-02 03:28:09 +0100] <cbarrett_work> jas8522: Depends when 1.2 is released. There will likely be a 1.1.5, since 1.2 isn't even beta yet.
[2007-11-02 03:28:17 +0100] <Mac-arena> zac and Evan each made a relevant change.
[2007-11-02 03:28:21 +0100] <jas8522> cbarrett_work: that's what I was thinking too
[2007-11-02 03:28:22 +0100] <Mac-arena> Haven't tried it yet.
[2007-11-02 03:29:30 +0100] <jas8522> OK, so that covers that... with Eric's last statement
[2007-11-02 03:29:43 +0100] <elliott> How about we push a beta on 1.1.4, we don't push the bug yet, give it a few days to be looked at a bit more in depth, and hopefully fixed, and then we can test 1.1.4 a few more days and push it?
[2007-11-02 03:29:58 +0100] <edr1084> hence the point of pushing a beta
[2007-11-02 03:30:33 +0100] <elliott> Right, but I don't quite want to throw 8181 out of 1.1.4 yet.
[2007-11-02 03:30:42 +0100] <edr1084> right
[2007-11-02 03:30:47 +0100] <jas8522> well 1.1.4 will still be there until the final
[2007-11-02 03:32:03 +0100] <elliott> Assuming Evan is ok with it, and I don't see why he wouldn't be, that seems like a good course of action.
[2007-11-02 03:32:16 +0100] <zac> i'm willing to bet he'd be fine
[2007-11-02 03:32:16 +0100] <jas8522> done and done.
[2007-11-02 03:32:23 +0100] <zac> the icon bug can be fixed post-beta-start
[2007-11-02 03:32:23 +0100] <cbarrett_work> someone take an action item to email evan with this plan.
[2007-11-02 03:32:33 +0100] <elliott> jas8522?
[2007-11-02 03:32:33 +0100] <cbarrett_work> just briefly?
[2007-11-02 03:33:04 +0100] <jas8522> cbarrett_work: go for it
[2007-11-02 03:33:40 +0100] <cbarrett_work> infra update: clearspace. we are working on getting resin set up. if you have access to duck.adiumx.com (ask tick if you don't) you can help -- I made a TODO file and a CHANGES file for setting up Resin properly for deployment. As for actually seting up CS itself, CFM is our pointman on that.
[2007-11-02 03:34:19 +0100] <Mac-arena> Resin?
[2007-11-02 03:34:34 +0100] <cbarrett_work> Resin is the Java app server we are using to run Clearspace.
[2007-11-02 03:34:39 +0100] <The_Tick> cbarrett_work: I don't want to hand out more shell access
[2007-11-02 03:34:50 +0100] <cbarrett_work> ok
[2007-11-02 03:35:23 +0100] <elliott> Just curious, since I've missed the discussions etc. What are hoping to use Clearspace for
[2007-11-02 03:35:32 +0100] <The_Tick> forums+blog+docs
[2007-11-02 03:35:49 +0100] <elliott> nod
[2007-11-02 03:35:54 +0100] <cbarrett_work> elliott: Replace blog & forum, add a section for user docs and keep trac for developer documentation.
[2007-11-02 03:36:03 +0100] <elliott> Ah ok.
[2007-11-02 03:36:12 +0100] <jas8522> we'll be moving alot of docs out of Trac then?
[2007-11-02 03:36:31 +0100] <cbarrett_work> jas8522: some of the user facing ones yeah, that can happen ad hoc probably.
[2007-11-02 03:36:42 +0100] <jas8522> nice...
[2007-11-02 03:36:47 +0100] <cbarrett_work> elliott: as soon as we can properly configure resin and Clearspace.
[2007-11-02 03:37:02 +0100] <cbarrett_work> So if anyone can help set up Resin, that'd be much appreciated.
[2007-11-02 03:37:21 +0100] <elliott> Got it, is there going to be a website redesign / is anything changing to the front end?
[2007-11-02 03:37:23 +0100] <jas8522> cbarrett_work: I actually might be of assistance there ... will do
[2007-11-02 03:37:41 +0100] <cbarrett_work> elliott: no plans at this time, but really really really want.
[2007-11-02 03:38:08 +0100] <edr1084> I still like the idea we tossed around before of a contest
[2007-11-02 03:38:14 +0100] <zac> cbarrett_work: i've been saying "let's hold a design contest" for like a year and a half, but everybody always syas 'noooooooo!'
[2007-11-02 03:38:25 +0100] <cbarrett_work> Who says no?
[2007-11-02 03:38:28 +0100] <edr1084> zac: I say YES!
[2007-11-02 03:38:30 +0100] <elliott> contest sounds neat.
[2007-11-02 03:38:42 +0100] <cbarrett_work> zac: Figure out what you need to do to organize one.
[2007-11-02 03:38:44 +0100] <The_Tick> so long as we don't get confused people like we used to
[2007-11-02 03:38:57 +0100] <jas8522> clear rules/guidlines
[2007-11-02 03:39:37 +0100] <cbarrett_work> Who wants to take the action item to do the contest?
[2007-11-02 03:39:57 +0100] <zac> wow is distracting me atm, sec
[2007-11-02 03:40:02 +0100] <cbarrett_work> D:
[2007-11-02 03:40:08 +0100] <The_Tick> we have a lot of stuff to get done already
[2007-11-02 03:40:18 +0100] <cbarrett_work> The_Tick: sure, I just want someone to "own" that
[2007-11-02 03:40:20 +0100] <The_Tick> let's let that list shrink first
[2007-11-02 03:40:22 +0100] <jas8522> haha I shall check it out... I might also have someone who will do it anyway
[2007-11-02 03:40:22 +0100] <cbarrett_work> so it doesn't slip through the cracks.
[2007-11-02 03:40:31 +0100] <The_Tick> cbarrett_work: it won't if we have a ticket for it ;)
[2007-11-02 03:40:47 +0100] <cbarrett_work> yeah like the great renaming, lolz
[2007-11-02 03:40:52 +0100] <jas8522> lol
[2007-11-02 03:41:00 +0100] <The_Tick> I kept asking people when they wanted to do that shit
[2007-11-02 03:41:09 +0100] <jas8522> I will do it
[2007-11-02 03:41:14 +0100] <The_Tick> the renaming?
[2007-11-02 03:41:17 +0100] <cbarrett_work> I *want* to, I just don't have *time*.
[2007-11-02 03:41:19 +0100] <jas8522> lol no
[2007-11-02 03:41:24 +0100] <The_Tick> cbarrett_work: neither do I
[2007-11-02 03:41:44 +0100] <Mac-arena> The_Tick: Huzzah!
[2007-11-02 03:41:45 +0100] <cbarrett_work> I kinda want to get buildbot up first anyway, tbh
[2007-11-02 03:41:51 +0100] <The_Tick> and see server
[2007-11-02 03:42:06 +0100] <Mac-arena> Yes. Automatic regression testing, *then* large-scale breakage of the source code.
[2007-11-02 03:42:16 +0100] <edr1084> agreed
[2007-11-02 03:42:23 +0100] <cbarrett_work> ANyway
[2007-11-02 03:42:30 +0100] <Mac-arena> What was the consensus on pushing the Spaces fix?
[2007-11-02 03:42:37 +0100] <jas8522> Alright, so it seems Unsanity is quite busy fixing their other projects before SCR ... unless someone has heard otherwise. Any suggestions for crash reporting with Leopard?
[2007-11-02 03:43:53 +0100] <cbarrett_work> jas8522: Breakpad looks sweet, IMO. Just need someone to do it. We are seriously shortstaffed.
[2007-11-02 03:44:33 +0100] <hal2k> or get some money to get someone working fulltime on adium
[2007-11-02 03:44:54 +0100] <jas8522> the monetizing adium ticket did as well as the great renaming :|
[2007-11-02 03:45:00 +0100] <Mac-arena> adds "Banks to rob" to the agenda
[2007-11-02 03:45:07 +0100] <jas8522> hahaha
[2007-11-02 03:45:39 +0100] <edr1084> so hal2k guess we have you left
[2007-11-02 03:45:45 +0100] <Mac-arena> So our options are (1) Bring back the burning duck with a new server or (2) Breakpad
[2007-11-02 03:45:45 +0100] <edr1084> or not
[2007-11-02 03:46:01 +0100] <jas8522> what's required server side for the burning duck?
[2007-11-02 03:46:03 +0100] <hal2k> edr1084: getting me paid for full-time? sure! :)
[2007-11-02 03:46:25 +0100] <cbarrett_work> jas8522: some completely custom thing jmelloy wrote ages ago
[2007-11-02 03:46:54 +0100] <cbarrett_work> I would say breakpad, probably as much work. I don't have room on my plate. Maybe M-a does, what with his infinte free time :P
[2007-11-02 03:47:26 +0100] <hal2k> well, about the @adiumx.com XMPP stuff?
[2007-11-02 03:47:30 +0100] <Mac-arena> Heh. Infinite free time, and infinite to-do list.
[2007-11-02 03:47:51 +0100] <jas8522> I'm not sold that this should be a major priority ... people are keen on opening tickets when it crashes anyway
[2007-11-02 03:47:54 +0100] <Mac-arena> hal2k: Running an XMPP server would be a hassle, I think.
[2007-11-02 03:47:57 +0100] <jas8522> alright yeah, let's go to the XMPP
[2007-11-02 03:47:59 +0100] <hal2k> it's all set up, I just need a DNS entry on the adiumx.com domain
[2007-11-02 03:48:10 +0100] <Mac-arena> Oh, it's already running?
[2007-11-02 03:48:14 +0100] <cbarrett_work> hal2k: uhh really?
[2007-11-02 03:48:28 +0100] <hal2k> I have a VPS node
[2007-11-02 03:48:46 +0100] <cbarrett_work> hal2k: he is supposed to get me in contact with the folks about other DNS issues as well.
[2007-11-02 03:48:57 +0100] <hal2k> I'm running ejabberd on my VPS node, and have multi-homing
[2007-11-02 03:49:41 +0100] <alangh> hal2k: very nice
[2007-11-02 03:49:54 +0100] <hal2k> another thing I'd need would be a list of users who are allowed to have an account
[2007-11-02 03:50:27 +0100] <edr1084> hal2k: anyone with commit + select others?
[2007-11-02 03:50:28 +0100] <alangh> those with an @adiumx.com email
[2007-11-02 03:50:32 +0100] <hal2k> edr1084: probably
[2007-11-02 03:50:33 +0100] <elliott> ^^
[2007-11-02 03:51:08 +0100] <cbarrett_work> hal2k: agree, everyone with an @adiumx.com email address should get it.
[2007-11-02 03:51:14 +0100] <hal2k> ok
[2007-11-02 03:51:15 +0100] <Mac-arena> nods
[2007-11-02 03:51:22 +0100] <hal2k> can someone mail me the list?
[2007-11-02 03:51:31 +0100] <cbarrett_work> I'm out btw
[2007-11-02 03:51:34 +0100] <Mac-arena> That depends. Are you on it?!
[2007-11-02 03:51:39 +0100] <jas8522> have a good one cbarrett
[2007-11-02 03:51:43 +0100] <hal2k> I'm am-AT-adiumx.com :)
[2007-11-02 03:51:49 +0100] <alangh> would be great if we had a grand unified LDAP server that svn/xmpp/trac could all use
[2007-11-02 03:52:01 +0100] <cbarrett_work> alangh: if only svn could use LDAP!
[2007-11-02 03:52:34 +0100] <hal2k> cbarrett_work: should be possible, svn has an API for external auth
[2007-11-02 03:52:37 +0100] <alangh> it can.... I have it set up at work
[2007-11-02 03:52:50 +0100] <cbarrett_work> only if you're running through apache2, afaik.
[2007-11-02 03:53:03 +0100] <alangh> I believe you are correct
[2007-11-02 03:53:10 +0100] <cbarrett_work> svnserve sucks so hard.
[2007-11-02 03:53:28 +0100] <hal2k> I'm using apache2.2 for svn on my VPS node
[2007-11-02 03:53:28 +0100] <cbarrett_work> i gotta run
[2007-11-02 03:53:31 +0100] <Mac-arena> Any way to get lighttpd to do svn?
[2007-11-02 03:53:51 +0100] <cbarrett_work> Mac-arena: no, not afaik. lighttpd sucks anyway, so it's cool :P
[2007-11-02 03:54:58 +0100] <jas8522> so I think this brings the meeting to an end?
[2007-11-02 03:55:08 +0100] <edr1084> I believe so unless anyone else has something
[2007-11-02 03:55:11 +0100] <alangh> thanks everyone!
