Time and Location

Thursday, 2007-04-19 in #adium-devl

PDT	MDT	CDT	EDT	CEST
6 PM	7 PM	8 PM	9 PM	3 AM

Agenda

1. Importers discussion - Graham or Brian
2. Summer of Code - David
3. Voice/Video status - Alan
4. 1.1 stuff - David and Chris
5. Parental Controls status - Alan
6. Disk image stuff - Chris, need Peter or Colin or someone else involved in this discussion present
7. Training sessions and office hours - Chris
8. Bring back Planet Adium? - Colin (Chris?)

Log

[9:04pm] The_Tick: we're missing cfm
[9:05pm] The_Tick: looks like we're moving some of these around
[9:05pm] The_Tick: gbooker: you here?
[9:05pm] djbsquared: hes not online either
[9:05pm] gbooker: The_Tick: yep
[9:05pm] The_Tick: you're up first
[9:05pm] gbooker: uh oh
[9:05pm] • gbooker runs and hides from the crowd
[9:05pm] The_Tick: we ready folks?
[9:06pm] gbooker was granted voice by The_Tick.
[9:06pm] gbooker: so, what was I talking about again, importers?
[9:06pm] The_Tick: ya
[9:06pm] gbooker: so, guess I should rehash what went on the list then
[9:06pm] The_Tick: 1.2 blocks on brian's ichat importer
[9:06pm] The_Tick: ya, and any changes
[9:06pm] The_Tick: see if anyone has comments
[9:06pm] gbooker: Since Brian was implementing an importer for iChat, and we already have one for Fire, I figured we should make a common UI interface for all importers
[9:07pm] gbooker: and the interface then calls the importer which implements a specific protocol
[9:07pm] Newtylicious: isn't UI interface redudant? 
[9:07pm] hal2k: metainterface
[9:07pm] zac: not if you're trying to distinguish between CLI and GUI
[9:08pm] gbooker: Newtylicious: there is the interface between the importer and the UI 
[9:08pm] applmak (n=applmak@adsl-68-73-119-248.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) joined the chat room.
[9:08pm] gbooker: it has a call to determine what the importers capabilities are, an action to import the accounts (and its buddy list if applicable), an action to import status messages, and finally logs
[9:09pm] gbooker: we had some discussions about the logs going into a separate thread, and I think we have agreed that a seperate thread is best for them
[9:09pm] gbooker: the only concern is that NSFileManager is not thread safe, but I have worked on implementing some of its routines in a way that are.
[9:10pm] gbooker: In all, a log importer only needs to know the contents of a directory, and have the ability to create and copy files
[9:10pm] gbooker: so, thoughts?
[9:11pm] eitanko: regarding logs, we planning on having them readable in adium's chat transcript viewer?
[9:11pm] The_Tick: yea
[9:11pm] eitanko: and isnt that xml format proprietary?
[9:11pm] gbooker: just like fire's are
[9:11pm] eitanko: so you would need to translate them
[9:11pm] gbooker: eitanko: people have figured out how to read them
[9:12pm] Mac-arena: iChat logs are NSKeyedArchiver.
[9:12pm] gbooker: yeah, of an NSAttributedString or something
[9:12pm] The_Tick: we've received permission to use loggorea
[9:12pm] gbooker: point is, we can parse them
[9:12pm] Mac-arena: More probably an array thereof, but anyway.
[9:12pm] The_Tick: however you spell it
[9:12pm] eitanko: got it
[9:12pm] eitanko: sounds exciting. makes transitioning to adium easier
[9:12pm] The_Tick: which is what brian's branch is based on for logs
[9:12pm] DeathAxe (n=DeathAxe@bas6-montreal02-1096660381.dsl.bell.ca) joined the chat room.
[9:12pm] The_Tick: eitanko: yeppers
[9:12pm] gbooker: most recent revision of the importer API on the mailing list: http://adiumx.com/pipermail/adium-devl_adiumx.com/2007-April/002613.html
[9:13pm] The_Tick: gbooker: sounds like everyone is pretty ok with all this
[9:13pm] ksuther: Loggorhea does it the best way, as far as I know, since it uses the direct classes that iChat uses to serialize
[9:13pm] The_Tick: ksuther: aye
[9:13pm] jas8522: gbooker: sounds pretty solid
[9:13pm] ksuther: I used it in Chax's log viewer, so I approve 
[9:13pm] The_Tick: took a while for us to get permission, but we got it
[9:14pm] gbooker: ok, that is all I got, so unless there are any other comments, I say we move on to the next topic
[9:14pm] The_Tick: looks like we don't
[9:14pm] jas8522: oh, will this be a separate application?
[9:14pm] vIkSiT (n=someone@unaffiliated/viksit) left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[9:14pm] gbooker: no, built into adium
[9:14pm] jas8522: ok
[9:14pm] gbooker: part of the first run wizard...
[9:15pm] gbooker: and can be executed at any time
[9:15pm] gbooker: just like the importer is for Fire in the latest release
[9:15pm] jas8522: yep File->Import
[9:15pm] gbooker: look at the import submenu in the file menu
[9:16pm] mipadi: can it just import logs if, say, i have an old folder full of ichat logs that i'd like to copy into adium?
[9:16pm] eitanko: will it autodetect what apps are installed and what data is available?
[9:16pm] eitanko: or does the user choose what app and what data?
[9:16pm] gbooker: I would see it as detect, and user choose from detected list
[9:16pm] gbooker: mipadi: yeah, notice the importer for fire ATM has the option to just import logs
[9:16pm] jas8522: gbooker - dont' forget to add a 'store folder' option where you can choose as well
[9:17pm] gbooker: store folder?
[9:17pm] gbooker: you mean destination?
[9:17pm] jas8522: no I mean in case the logs are a backed up set in another folder somewhere or something like that
[9:17pm] jas8522: the user can specify the folder of the logs from iChat
[9:17pm] gbooker: I see, gp
[9:18pm] Mac-arena: It depends on whether the client offers a choice of where to save them. IIRC, iChat lets you choose the folder, so we'd default to the current folder and let you choose.
[9:18pm] gbooker: an import from this directory kind of thing
[9:18pm] Mac-arena: I don't know about Fire.
[9:18pm] gbooker: fire has a specific location
[9:18pm] gbooker: and directory structure
[9:18pm] Mac-arena: gbooker: Doesn't let the user change it?
[9:18pm] gbooker: nope
[9:18pm] Mac-arena: OK
[9:18pm] gbooker: unless they change the code
[9:18pm] Mac-arena: Oh, iChat doesn't either
[9:18pm] ksuther: Mac-arena: yes it does
[9:18pm] Mac-arena: It's fixed at ~/Documents/iChats
[9:19pm] ksuther: No, it isn't, just no UI to change it in iChat 3
[9:19pm] Mac-arena: Ah
[9:19pm] Mac-arena: Hidden pref.
[9:19pm] The_Tick: ok
[9:19pm] The_Tick: so everyone pretty happy with the proposal?
[9:19pm] Mac-arena: Sounds good to me.
[9:20pm] eitanko: yes, awesome work gbooker
[9:20pm] The_Tick: alright, next topic then
[9:20pm] The_Tick: hrmm, alan and cfm are unavailable, so skipping those
[9:20pm] Mac-arena was granted voice by The_Tick.
[9:21pm] The_Tick: so the disk image stuff
[9:21pm] The_Tick: where does that stand?
[9:21pm] • The_Tick points at Mac-arena
[9:21pm] Mac-arena: Last known consensus: We stick with a non-internet-enabled disk image, but we add UI to Adium that checks for (1) the disk image nature in the parent folder and (2) the disk image background file.
[9:22pm] Mac-arena: If it detects both, it says "hey, you know you're running from the disk image? You won't be able to eject the disk image until you quit Adium. Better to copy it to your Applications folder, and I can do that for you if you want."
[9:22pm] Mac-arena: (draft wording *cough*)
[9:22pm] zac: it's already added..
[9:22pm] zac: that functionality
[9:22pm] zac: it's in trunk!
[9:23pm] Mac-arena: Cool.
[9:23pm] eitanko: really?
[9:23pm] zac: google gave the code for it
[9:23pm] hal2k: well, that implementation sounds good
[9:23pm] eitanko: i saw...that was fast
[9:23pm] Mac-arena: Yeah, Google added it in MacFUSE
[9:23pm] Mac-arena: and BSD-licensed it, so now we have it in Adium.
[9:24pm] eitanko: sweet
[9:24pm] Mac-arena: (Thanks to zac for pointing out that it's in. I don't keep up on the changesets. 
[9:24pm] eitanko: i guess there were users who couldnt do a drag?
[9:24pm] Mac-arena: eitanko: Heh, you may have missed the feedback email.
[9:24pm] ksuther: eitanko: more like didn't know that's how it worked
[9:24pm] Mac-arena: A user reported that update wouldn't work
[9:24pm] eitanko: i thought there was a message and an arrow last i looked
[9:25pm] Mac-arena: It told her that she "didn't have permission" to do that.
[9:25pm] eitanko: oh
[9:25pm] Mac-arena: (to update)
[9:25pm] Mac-arena: And she started moving some of her documents, because she consulted the help and it suggested removing Xtras
[9:25pm] The_Tick: oh yea, can we find out if a user has rights to install into /Applications?
[9:26pm] Mac-arena: She pasted the relevant portion of the help book, which came through verbatim (hooray for HTML email! - never thought I'd say that)
[9:26pm] hal2k: The_Tick: yes
[9:26pm] jas8522: The_Tick: yeah... and if not prompt for password
[9:26pm] Mac-arena: I noticed that an intra-help link in the excerpt had the disk image path in it.
[9:26pm] Mac-arena: That's how I figured out that she was running from the disk image.
[9:26pm] DeathAxe (n=DeathAxe@bas6-montreal02-1096660381.dsl.bell.ca) left the chat room. ("Quitting!")
[9:26pm] hal2k: The_Tick: there's a method somewhere that asks "could I write there if I wanted?"
[9:26pm] Mac-arena: eitanko: As for the instructions in the background - many people just don't read.
[9:26pm] Mac-arena: hal2k: access(2)
[9:26pm] The_Tick: does this thing already implement that?
[9:26pm] Mac-arena: (x-man-page://2/access)
[9:27pm] eitanko: Mac-arena: well, i think this is a neat feature even if some ppl dont read
[9:27pm] Mac-arena: eitanko: No, this feature is new in trunk.
[9:27pm] Mac-arena: She was using 1.0.2.
[9:27pm] Mac-arena: (Or 1.0.1, actually, since she was trying to update)
[9:27pm] jas8522: how'd she get 1.0.1 to begin with? Someone else install it?
[9:27pm] Mac-arena: 1.0.x do not have the "you're running from the disk image you fool!" feature.
[9:27pm] ksuther: there's a wrapped cocoa method for write permissions too, I believe
[9:27pm] Mac-arena: jas8522: No idea, but she could have downloaded it from the website.
[9:28pm] Mac-arena: She didn't *always* have Adium.
[9:28pm] jas8522: no I mean the original was installed correctly ...
[9:28pm] Mac-arena: No, it wasn't.
[9:28pm] Mac-arena: It was never installed.
[9:28pm] jas8522: oh..
[9:28pm] Mac-arena: She was running it from the disk image, like I said.
[9:28pm] jas8522: k
[9:28pm] Mac-arena: So she couldn't update because disk images are not writable.
[9:28pm] cbarrett: hm?
[9:28pm] Mac-arena: (obligatory mention of exceptions)
[9:28pm] Mac-arena: cbarrett: WB
[9:29pm] jas8522: yeah I know... I thought you had said she was trying to update
[9:29pm] Mac-arena: jas8522: She was.
[9:29pm] Mac-arena: But she couldn't, because Adium updates in place, and "in place" was on the disk image.
[9:29pm] jas8522: gotcha
[9:29pm] Mac-arena: So it threw a permission error.
[9:30pm] bgannin (n=bgannin@adsl-70-130-181-106.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) joined the chat room.
[9:30pm] The_Tick: hey brian
[9:30pm] bgannin: heya
[9:30pm] The_Tick: gbooker covered your topic already
[9:30pm] bgannin: thought i'd drop in for a few minutes and idle for a little while 
[9:31pm] bgannin: was at the store getting last minute moving items
[9:31pm] The_Tick: we're almost done with disk image topic
[9:31pm] Mac-arena: What's left on it?
[9:31pm] The_Tick: don't think there's anything
[9:31pm] Mac-arena: I'm not seeing the disk image code
[9:31pm] The_Tick: it's in the google repo
[9:32pm] Mac-arena: zac said it was in our trunk
[9:32pm] zac: i saw evan commit it earlier this week
[9:32pm] Mac-arena: Ah, now I see it
[9:32pm] zac: http://trac.adiumx.com/changeset/19490
[9:32pm] Mac-arena: Blends in real well.
[9:33pm] The_Tick: alright, we're done with this topic?
[9:33pm] Mac-arena: And yes, it does check for permission.
[9:34pm] Mac-arena: I think we could do some improvement on the error-reporting, though.
[9:34pm] Mac-arena: It currently just NSLogs.
[9:34pm] The_Tick: implementation details
[9:34pm] Mac-arena: Yeah, I'll file a ticket
[9:34pm] The_Tick: cool
[9:34pm] Mac-arena: (NSError FTW!)
[9:34pm] The_Tick: we're done methinks
[9:34pm] • Mac-arena nods
[9:35pm] Mac-arena: cbarrett: Are you still at the Verizon store?
[9:35pm] Mac-arena had voice removed by The_Tick.
[9:35pm] The_Tick: I have 2 topics, then colin has 1
[9:35pm] Mac-arena: BTW, 1.1 will require Tiger, right?
[9:35pm] The_Tick: which leads into my first topic
[9:35pm] The_Tick: 1.1 stuff
[9:35pm] The_Tick: yes, 1.1 requires 10.4
[9:36pm] cbarrett: Mac-arena: Sure.
[9:36pm] cbarrett:
[9:36pm] The_Tick: I think the 1.1 milestone has a few tickets that can be pushed out of it
[9:36pm] eitanko: hmm like what?
[9:36pm] The_Tick: like I haven't looked yet 
[9:36pm] The_Tick: been busy processing new tickets with edr and jas8522
[9:37pm] The_Tick: so what I'd like is for everyone to look at the open tickets
[9:37pm] The_Tick: and if it can be pushed, get another dev to approve, and if both do
[9:37pm] The_Tick: move it
[9:37pm] eitanko: http://trac.adiumx.com/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=Adium+X+1.1
[9:37pm] eitanko: for convenience
[9:37pm] The_Tick: I'd like us to get into the habbit of not beta'ing until we have 0 tickets open on a milestone
[9:38pm] jas8522: The_Tick: perhaps ignoring low priority?
[9:38pm] cbarrett: that'd be more of a release candidate, though
[9:38pm] • Mac-arena notes that DiskImageUtilities is out-of-date according to Avi Drissman
[9:38pm] The_Tick: point being, we release a beta with 10 tickets
[9:39pm] The_Tick: then one of those tickets changes things up, we release another beta with that change, and the previous testing is invalidated if the change is big enough
[9:39pm] The_Tick: at least that's a theory I've heard from a few people
[9:39pm] eitanko: no regression testing?
[9:39pm] The_Tick: but it seems sound
[9:39pm] The_Tick: eitanko: we don't have much in the way of that sort of testing
[9:40pm] hal2k: we should
[9:40pm] The_Tick: aye
[9:40pm] The_Tick: our infrastructure is moving that way
[9:40pm] cbarrett: I'm not sure I agree -- all the testing for other things is still valid, at least partially.
[9:40pm] The_Tick: cbarrett: right
[9:41pm] Mac-arena: Filed the error-reporting ticket as #6768.
[9:41pm] Erik006 (n=Erik@d141-166-226.home.cgocable.net) left the chat room.
[9:41pm] cbarrett: The_Tick: I'd say it depends on how big the tickets are.
[9:41pm] The_Tick: why?
[9:41pm] cbarrett: beta should have all the big stuff landed. Small tweaks or whatever, thsoe can go in later.
[9:41pm] zac: a lot of the tickets on 1.1 are pretty small
[9:42pm] The_Tick: right, which means some can be pushed
[9:42pm] The_Tick: and we can fix the rest before a release
[9:42pm] eitanko: if they are small, why not just do them?
[9:42pm] eitanko: oh
[9:42pm] The_Tick: eitanko: ding
[9:42pm] eitanko: before beta
[9:42pm] eitanko: got it
[9:42pm] The_Tick: it's a change in the way we do things
[9:42pm] The_Tick: but I think it'd be beneficial
[9:42pm] eitanko: like i would know....
[9:43pm] The_Tick: anyhow, it's more just to get everyone thinking on it
[9:43pm] The_Tick: not something that needs decision tonight
[9:43pm] eitanko: fair enough
[9:43pm] jas8522: The_Tick: it appears to be a good point, considering the number of small bugs I've confirmed
[9:43pm] The_Tick: oh right
[9:43pm] jas8522: ie: minor UI related bugs
[9:43pm] The_Tick: everyone meet jas8522
[9:43pm] • jas8522 waves
[9:43pm] The_Tick: he's processed over 100 tickets over the last 24 hours
[9:44pm] eitanko: i was wondering why TC was filling up the chat
[9:44pm] The_Tick: edr did the same when he came on 
[9:44pm] Crypt: gulps
[9:44pm] The_Tick: my other topic is small
[9:44pm] • applmak is impressed.
[9:44pm] The_Tick: we have a list of times on the office hours trac page
[9:44pm] The_Tick: I'd like to come up with, once a month
[9:45pm] The_Tick: a meeting in at least 2 time zones
[9:45pm] The_Tick: to go over just straight up coding issues
[9:45pm] The_Tick: a time when someone would be guaranteed to be there that knows at least a portion of the code base
[9:45pm] The_Tick: one in the european time zones
[9:45pm] eitanko: that would be useful
[9:45pm] The_Tick: and one more in the west coast states time zones
[9:45pm] windalf: would be great 
[9:46pm] The_Tick: which would also cover australia and new zealand and japan and china
[9:46pm] The_Tick: if it was done more in the evening
[9:46pm] The_Tick: what do you guys think?
[9:46pm] Mac-arena: CFM coming
[9:46pm] Catfish_Man (n=david@adium/CatfishMan) joined the chat room.
[9:46pm] The_Tick: Mac-arena: can you catch him up to this second topic of mine?
[9:47pm] • Mac-arena catches himself up on it first
[9:47pm] Catfish_Man: what's the meeting channel again?
[9:47pm] rhussmann: As a new dev, still kind of lurking, I think that would be really useful.
[9:47pm] Catfish_Man: oh, here
[9:47pm] Catfish_Man: nm
[9:47pm] The_Tick: Catfish_Man: here
[9:47pm] ksuther: heh
[9:47pm] eitanko: The_Tick: is this just coding issues, or "training sessions" as you have it listed?
[9:47pm] The_Tick: eitanko: it could be both
[9:47pm] eitanko: either would be great
[9:48pm] The_Tick: whatever the "student(s)" need
[9:48pm] eitanko: both would be awesome
[9:48pm] Mac-arena: cbarrett: BTW, see topic. 
[9:48pm] Newtylicious: heh
[9:48pm] The_Tick: Catfish_Man: once or twice a month, guaranteed dev on irc in 2 time zones to help with programming topics
[9:48pm] The_Tick: that's the gist
[9:48pm] Catfish_Man: ya, M-a pasted
[9:48pm] Mac-arena: The_Tick: I IM'd it to him 
[9:48pm] The_Tick: kk
[9:48pm] pblair: ooo, "training sessions". I like the sound of that. I would attend.
[9:48pm] The_Tick: we know that the new folks would like it
[9:49pm] The_Tick: we'd need buy-in from devs though
[9:49pm] Mac-arena: Training sessions would be preceded by planing sessions and followed by automobiling sessions.
[9:49pm] edr1084 (n=edr1084@adium/edr1084) joined the chat room.
[9:49pm] • Catfish_Man is way better at Q&A than "training"
[9:49pm] Mac-arena: Wow, that joke tanked.
[9:49pm] The_Tick: Mac-arena: heh
[9:49pm] edr1084: sigh...
[9:49pm] • edr1084 forgot
[9:49pm] • eitanko groans at Mac-arena
[9:49pm] The_Tick: Catfish_Man: q&a would be fine
[9:49pm] The_Tick: just someone who knows the codebase
[9:49pm] edr1084:
[9:49pm] The_Tick: who can answer questions
[9:49pm] The_Tick: would probably be useful
[9:50pm] Mac-arena: I'm pretty good at the training, myself. (As evidenced by the one-and-two-halves tutorials I've written.)
[9:50pm] Catfish_Man: oh, you have to know the code?
[9:50pm] Catfish_Man: nm
[9:50pm] The_Tick: we're all on here anyhow, but scheduled times sometimes helps
[9:50pm] Catfish_Man:
[9:50pm] Mac-arena: Catfish_Man: That eliminates most of us...
[9:50pm] eitanko: haha
[9:50pm] cbarrett: heheh
[9:50pm] The_Tick: heh
[9:50pm] The_Tick: anyhow, if you guys wanted to come up with a way to do thi
[9:50pm] The_Tick: this
[9:50pm] The_Tick: I'm thinking hal2k and ofri in european timezones
[9:50pm] eitanko: pblair: can we have any bad jokes stricken from the log???
[9:50pm] pblair: eitanko: I don't have that plugin installed 
[9:50pm] The_Tick: and perhaps colin/mac-arena/cfm more evening on the pacific times
[9:50pm] eitanko: darn
[9:51pm] cbarrett: I'm available during the day via IM.
[9:51pm] cbarrett: IRC is hard to watch, I really need to get growl set up with irssi.
[9:51pm] eitanko: The_Tick: just not too late Pacific time...us east coasters would like to go
[9:51pm] The_Tick: I'm sure we could figure something out
[9:51pm] Newtylicious: What about the Hawaiian devs? 
[9:52pm] The_Tick: heh
[9:52pm] Mac-arena: Newtylicious: We don't have any anymore...
[9:52pm] The_Tick: so it looks like there is at least some interest
[9:52pm] Mac-arena: (in the time zone sense, anyway)
[9:52pm] The_Tick: I'll mail devl so we can figure things out more bettererer
[9:52pm] The_Tick: sound good?
[9:52pm] eitanko: yup
[9:53pm] The_Tick: alright
[9:54pm] The_Tick: cbarrett: your topic, then we hit topics for cfm
[9:54pm] cbarrett was granted voice by The_Tick.
[9:54pm] The_Tick: I believe yours is planet adium
[9:54pm] cbarrett: yeah
[9:54pm] Mac-arena: We need typing indicators on IRC.
[9:54pm] cbarrett: I think we should bring it back.
[9:54pm] The_Tick: I concur
[9:54pm] Mac-arena: Of course the CTCP for that would piss everybody off who doesn't support it...
[9:54pm] cbarrett: We've got a much larger number of people blogging now.
[9:54pm] pblair: Me three.
[9:54pm] Mac-arena: cbarrett: Zerothed!
[9:54pm] cbarrett: at one point it was only me
[9:55pm] Mac-arena: (being that I suggested it originally 
[9:55pm] eitanko: what was planet adium?
[9:55pm] Mac-arena: eitanko: Aggregation of blogs of Adium developers
[9:55pm] eitanko: cool
[9:55pm] cbarrett: eitanko: blog aggerator, similar to planet gnome or planet mozilla
[9:55pm] Mac-arena: (and contributors, SoC students - whoever)
[9:55pm] The_Tick: eitanko: look at planet-im.com for an example
[9:55pm] cbarrett: http://planet.gnome.org/
[9:55pm] The_Tick: so logistically
[9:55pm] cbarrett: http://planet.mozilla.org/
[9:55pm] eitanko: got it, got it
[9:55pm] eitanko: thanks
[9:56pm] The_Tick: we're getting a newer box from network redux
[9:56pm] The_Tick: and some other stuff
[9:56pm] The_Tick: when that happens, we can do this
[9:56pm] pblair: so it could just be planet.adiumx.com. All it needs in python and cron.
[9:56pm] The_Tick: probably less than a month
[9:56pm] The_Tick: but we'll see how things go
[9:56pm] cbarrett: why do we need a new box for this?
[9:56pm] hal2k: The_Tick: xmpp-server would be great
[9:56pm] The_Tick: we're moving everything to a new box
[9:56pm] The_Tick: and to a new datacenter
[9:56pm] mipadi: haha, xmpp server would be cool
[9:57pm] cbarrett: we can't set it up now? probably would take an hour, at the most.
[9:57pm] hal2k: cbarrett: hardware is the problem right now
[9:57pm] The_Tick: aye
[9:57pm] The_Tick: the hardware we have is pretty much at limit
[9:57pm] cbarrett: I see.
[9:57pm] Catfish_Man: I thought the load averages were around ~0.45?
[9:58pm] The_Tick: Catfish_Man: ya, but I'm anticipating more when crash reporter moves over
[9:58pm] The_Tick: since that's a higher priority
[10:00pm] The_Tick: but ya, we'll get it
[10:00pm] The_Tick: I think everyone seems to want it too, so that's good
[10:00pm] The_Tick: cbarrett: anything else on this topic?
[10:01pm] cbarrett: yeah one last thing
[10:01pm] Mac-arena: No, it's "There's just one more thing"
[10:01pm] cbarrett: It's not an annoucement, and I'm not Steve Jobs.
[10:01pm] Catfish_Man: boom?
[10:01pm] cbarrett: I'm going to hurt both of you 
[10:01pm] Mac-arena: "Planet Adium will collect your blog posts otomatically."
[10:01pm] The_Tick: guys, topic
[10:01pm] Mac-arena: cbarrett: Topic!
[10:02pm] cbarrett: I'm typing!
[10:02pm] cbarrett: We should try and get some kind of federation with planet-im and get updated feeds for the people who are on there.
[10:02pm] The_Tick: chip would need to fix planet-im first
[10:02pm] cbarrett: I'm not sure everyone on planet adium should be on planet im
[10:02pm] The_Tick: it hasn't updated in a while
[10:02pm] cbarrett: er
[10:02pm] cbarrett: it has for me
[10:02pm] The_Tick: once it's up I can see getting that taken care of pretty quickly
[10:03pm] The_Tick: oh, so it has
[10:03pm] The_Tick: guess he fixed it
[10:03pm] cbarrett: yes.
[10:03pm] Mac-arena: Ideally, there's a way for Planet Adium to include both Adium-related and somebody-related-to-Adium-wrote-it-but-it-doesn't-necessarily-have-anything-to-do-with-Adium posts, and direct the Adium-related posts to Planet IM and the others only to those subscribers who've elected to receive such posts.
[10:03pm] Mac-arena: A switch on the front page: "Show all posts" or "Show Adium-related posts only"
[10:03pm] The_Tick: alright, cool
[10:03pm] The_Tick: alright, we done with this one?
[10:04pm] The_Tick: ya
[10:04pm] cbarrett: sure, the rest is just engineering stuff.
[10:04pm] The_Tick: that'd need to be figured out between colin and chip
[10:04pm] cbarrett: i.e. "how are we going to do x and y"
[10:04pm] cbarrett: I'll get ahold of him once we have a better ETA and plan for getting our planet back up
[10:04pm] cbarrett: see what he wants to do
[10:04pm] The_Tick: ya
[10:04pm] The_Tick: works for me
[10:05pm] The_Tick: alright
[10:05pm] The_Tick: I think we're done with this topic
[10:05pm] eharris_ (n=eharris@cpe-76-185-8-100.tx.res.rr.com) joined the chat room.
[10:06pm] cbarrett had voice removed by The_Tick.
[10:06pm] Catfish_Man was granted voice by The_Tick.
[10:06pm] The_Tick: Catfish_Man: last topics are for you
[10:06pm] • Catfish_Man totally didn't read the agenda
[10:06pm] • Catfish_Man goes to look
[10:06pm] The_Tick: summer of code and 1.1 stuff
[10:06pm] The_Tick: 1.1 I somewhat covered
[10:07pm] jas8522: what are you guys being paid for anyway?
[10:07pm] jas8522:
[10:07pm] The_Tick: soc is probably better first
[10:07pm] • Mac-arena waves to applmak, his student
[10:07pm] Catfish_Man: k. What needs covering about? I'm assuming everyone has read the blog post?
[10:07pm] Mac-arena: Blog post? There was a blog post? 
[10:07pm] eitanko: yeah
[10:07pm] eitanko: today
[10:07pm] Catfish_Man: eitanko: M-a wrote it 
[10:07pm] Mac-arena: eitanko: That joke whizzed over your head.
[10:08pm] eitanko: oh
[10:08pm] eitanko: hehe
[10:08pm] • Mac-arena == Peter Hosey
[10:08pm] eitanko: and splattered on the wall behind me
[10:08pm] The_Tick: Catfish_Man: agenda was made before the post
[10:08pm] Mac-arena: Yup.
[10:08pm] The_Tick: Catfish_Man: soc is pretty much going to be on the agenda every meeting until that's done
[10:08pm] Catfish_Man: hehe
[10:08pm] The_Tick: to give updates on projects
[10:08pm] Catfish_Man: fair enough
[10:09pm] The_Tick: since we don't want last year to reoccur
[10:09pm] • The_Tick is losing the ability to spell
[10:09pm] The_Tick: anyhow, that's why it's on there
[10:09pm] cbarrett: The_Tick: put down the bottle, dude 
[10:10pm] eitanko: when do the projects officially start?
[10:10pm] The_Tick: google time or our time? 
[10:10pm] eitanko: hehe
[10:10pm] pblair: Do we have branches yet?
[10:10pm] Mac-arena: Google time == our time (mine and Colin's, and I think Catfish_Man's)
[10:10pm] cbarrett: yeah
[10:10pm] Mac-arena: We have a branch directory. I know I haven't created applmak's branch yet.
[10:10pm] cbarrett: CFM is in PDX
[10:11pm] Mac-arena: CFM is also in PEF. </really-freaking-obscure-Mac-OS-joke>
[10:11pm] The_Tick: ok, stop 
[10:11pm] cbarrett: lol!
[10:11pm] proton: heh
[10:11pm] The_Tick: unofficially
[10:11pm] The_Tick: we're starting now
[10:11pm] cbarrett: The_Tick: Mine was useful information.
[10:11pm] cbarrett: PDX = portland
[10:11pm] Catfish_Man: officially however, we can't actually rate your work done before the SoC work period begins
[10:11pm] Catfish_Man: which is somewhat awkward
[10:11pm] The_Tick: ya
[10:11pm] The_Tick: research mode
[10:11pm] Mac-arena: Catfish_Man: Yeah, that's the main reason I haven't done any branching yet.
[10:11pm] hal2k: I'll start when the google timeline says it's time to start
[10:12pm] pblair: define "rate"... provide feedback?
[10:12pm] Catfish_Man: pblair: we have to tell google how our students are doing twice during SoC
[10:12pm] Mac-arena: pblair: End-of-summer eval.
[10:12pm] Mac-arena: (and mid-summer eval)
[10:12pm] Catfish_Man: mid and end
[10:12pm] The_Tick: you can be failed
[10:12pm] The_Tick: or passed
[10:12pm] The_Tick: failed = no cash that part
[10:12pm] The_Tick: dunno if you can continue if you fail the first half
[10:12pm] eitanko: thats better than most university courses...
[10:12pm] pblair: ohhh so you mean if we do work before it officially start, it won't count?
[10:12pm] Catfish_Man: yeah
[10:13pm] Catfish_Man: which sucks
[10:13pm] pblair: that's definitely awkward.
[10:13pm] The_Tick: so just don't check it in until it's official 
[10:13pm] hal2k: I'll still annoy sean before soc starts, though 
[10:13pm] pblair: haha, fair enough
[10:13pm] The_Tick: hal2k: research mode 
[10:13pm] hal2k: right now you can use the time for getting to know the existing code
[10:14pm] The_Tick: overall I'm expecting at least a monthly report on all projects
[10:14pm] The_Tick: from the mentor or student
[10:14pm] The_Tick: students should all have blog access
[10:14pm] The_Tick: so status reports can just be done there
[10:14pm] cbarrett: sg to me.
[10:14pm] The_Tick: or to the mentor
[10:15pm] The_Tick: point is to avoid complications and project problems
[10:15pm] eitanko: what about merges in svn?
[10:15pm] The_Tick: merges from trunk you mean?
[10:15pm] eitanko: yeah
[10:15pm] cbarrett: if you want to, go for it
[10:15pm] The_Tick: Mac-arena and Catfish_Man you guys did most of them
[10:15pm] The_Tick: cbarrett: the big merges were a pain
[10:16pm] Jasarien (n=Jasarien@cpc4-cwbn1-0-0-cust1020.cdif.cable.ntl.com) left the chat room.
[10:16pm] Catfish_Man: personally I'd like to do them on a regular basis if at all possible
[10:16pm] The_Tick: we need to come up with something better this year
[10:16pm] Catfish_Man: to avoid stuff building up
[10:16pm] cbarrett: Catfish_Man: indeed
[10:16pm] The_Tick: every 2-3 weeks sounds decent
[10:16pm] The_Tick: or monthly
[10:16pm] Catfish_Man: I think we may also want to do select branch->trunk merges
[10:16pm] The_Tick: I agree
[10:16pm] Catfish_Man: particularly for stuff that might conflict with other student's branches
[10:17pm] cbarrett: sure
[10:17pm] The_Tick: or stuff we can benefit from right away
[10:17pm] pblair: should we work something out with our respective mentors to see what's required in terms of communication with them? I'd kinda like weekly / bi-weekly meetings/emails to confirm progress and get guidiance and stuff...
[10:17pm] The_Tick: pblair: yes
[10:17pm] Catfish_Man: pblair: I'm expecting everyone to be in touch at least once a week
[10:17pm] Catfish_Man: how you do that is up to you and your mentor
[10:17pm] pblair: okay cool, good stuff. Obviously I don't expect to be hand-held, but the more feedback we get the better, I think 
[10:17pm] The_Tick: don't wait for your mentor to ask coding problems
[10:17pm] The_Tick: btw
[10:17pm] pblair: yup for sure
[10:18pm] Mac-arena: Totally.
[10:18pm] Mac-arena: I plan on polling every week or so, but if you have a question, don't wait - email me
[10:18pm] gbooker: actually, here is a great place to get fast answers
[10:18pm] Mac-arena: gbooker: Yeah, but here != mentor 
[10:19pm] proton: well not necessarily, the mentor could be on here 
[10:19pm] gbooker: no, but if you are working on something, and you need a fast answer before you can continue, here is another place to check
[10:19pm] The_Tick: devl is also a great place to ask
[10:19pm] pblair: aye, as is #macdev, although sometimes merciless 
[10:19pm] Mac-arena: I'd add that if you ask #adium-devl while your mentor isn't around, you should email your mentor to inform him of that fact.
[10:19pm] cbarrett: #macsb is friendlier
[10:19pm] gbooker: this chan doesn't replace the mentor, but it is possible to get a faster response here.  But here could also be met with no response
[10:19pm] cbarrett: than #macdev
[10:19pm] Catfish_Man: what cbarrett said
[10:19pm] rhussmann (n=rhussman@c-24-131-120-101.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) left the chat room. ("This computer has gone to sleep")
[10:20pm] Mac-arena: #adium-devl is even friendlier than either one of those.
[10:20pm] Catfish_Man: Mac-arena: well, not for trivial stuff
[10:20pm] Mac-arena: Unless I've been out of IRC for a very very long time.
[10:20pm] Catfish_Man: I mean, if the question is answered, no need to ping someone else
[10:20pm] mipadi (n=mipadi@wifi231-082.bucknell.edu) left the chat room. ("Time to jet, laters.")
[10:21pm] hal2k: some folks go into this channel to ask generic cocoa questions, because the folks on #macsb don't want to help...
[10:21pm] Crypt: hmm Smooth Operator 2.0 should be a SoC project 
[10:21pm] Catfish_Man: heh
[10:21pm] cbarrett: we're still waiting for 1.0 to come out!
[10:21pm] Crypt: that way improv and i can get some money's 
[10:21pm] The_Tick: we have that branch
[10:21pm] The_Tick:
[10:21pm] Catfish_Man: if it's an SoC project it'd better include something like "Finish implementing SVG in WebKit and use it to make SO rock" 
[10:21pm] Mac-arena: Crypt: Too late for that this year 
[10:22pm] Mac-arena: Catfish_Man: Oh, totally.
[10:22pm] hal2k: Catfish_Man: isn't svg in apple's repository already?
[10:22pm] Crypt: who ever the last guy working on it was, the files were really disorganized
[10:22pm] Catfish_Man: hal2k: partially
[10:22pm] The_Tick: topic
[10:22pm] The_Tick: are we done?
[10:22pm] Mac-arena: Or, better yet, become an intern at Apple and add SVG to ImageIO.
[10:22pm] Catfish_Man: full SVG 1.2 is the Spec Of Madness
[10:22pm] Catfish_Man: The_Tick: I think so
[10:22pm] hal2k: Catfish_Man: they managed to implement html!
[10:22pm] Catfish_Man: hal2k: who?
[10:22pm] The_Tick: I had you down for a 1.1 item as well
[10:22pm] Crypt: hmms. Well, improv and I plan on working on smooth op this june
[10:23pm] hal2k: well, apple + some OS folks prior to that 
[10:23pm] Crypt: hopefully we'll have it out by the end of the sumemr
[10:23pm] Catfish_Man: hal2k: yeah, SVG 1.2 has some parts that conflict with HTML/CSS 
[10:24pm] hal2k: I think we're getting OT here
[10:24pm] • Mac-arena points everybody to the blinking TOPIC light
[10:24pm] Crypt: hmm will webview become CSS 3 compiant?
[10:24pm] Catfish_Man: we're done I think
[10:24pm] Catfish_Man: 1.1 is coming along nicely, y'all should test it
[10:24pm] Catfish_Man: Crypt: it implements parts of CSS3 already
[10:24pm] Catfish_Man: more in trunk
[10:24pm] Crypt: Catfish_Man: O RLY?/
[10:24pm] Mac-arena: Crypt: Shadows
[10:24pm] Catfish_Man: Mac-arena: and border-radius, and some selectors
[10:25pm] Crypt: that could make things much easier rather than using certain javascript elements
[10:25pm] Catfish_Man: and multiple background images iirc, but I'm not 100% sure on that
[10:25pm] Crypt: awesome
[10:25pm] hal2k: shadows are easy on mac os x
[10:25pm] Catfish_Man: I get confused between trunk and release
[10:25pm] Mac-arena: hal2k: Not so much on a web page.
[10:25pm] hal2k: Mac-arena: well, I'm talking about webkit's implementation
[10:25pm] Catfish_Man: Mac-arena: eh, still easy for text
[10:25pm] Catfish_Man: box-shadow is harder
[10:25pm] hal2k: Mac-arena: it's easy to add a 3.0 feature when it's just 2 lines of code
[10:25pm] Catfish_Man: primarily due to spec squishiness
[10:26pm] Mac-arena: hal2k: So true 
[10:26pm] Crypt: wierd. is there a way to obtain the missing frameworks i need to build adium 1.1?
[10:26pm] jas8522: ?
[10:26pm] Catfish_Man: Crypt: haven't heard about this issue of yours...
[10:26pm] jas8522: double broom
[10:26pm] jas8522: I had it before too
[10:27pm] Catfish_Man: btw, if anyone feels like doing a really solid implementation of :nth-child() in WebKit I'll give 'em $10 and a spiffy demo page
[10:27pm] Catfish_Man:
[10:27pm] Crypt: well i mean, i just checked it all out of the repository
[10:27pm] jas8522: that's od..
[10:27pm] jas8522: odd..
[10:27pm] Mac-arena: Crypt: mv build build-old && (rm -R build-old &) && xcodebuild args...
[10:27pm] Catfish_Man: Crypt: old version of Xcode probably
[10:27pm] Mac-arena: Crypt: What version of Xcode?
[10:27pm] applmak (n=applmak@adsl-68-73-119-248.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) left the chat room.
[10:27pm] Crypt: 2.4.1
[10:27pm] bgannin (n=bgannin@adsl-70-130-181-106.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) left the chat room.
[10:27pm] Catfish_Man: nm then
[10:27pm] jas8522: or not
[10:27pm] Mac-arena: You mean you're not running Xcode 7?!
[10:28pm] Mac-arena: The_Tick: Is there anything left on the agenda?
[10:28pm] pblair: Xcode 7: Featuring Quadruple-Broom
[10:28pm] The_Tick: only alan's stuff
[10:28pm] Crypt: how is this possible
[10:28pm] The_Tick: and he's not responding
[10:28pm] The_Tick: so no 
[10:28pm] The_Tick: we're done
[10:28pm] Crypt: i see adium framework >_<
[10:28pm] Catfish_Man: Crypt: what's the actual error message
[10:29pm] windalf (n=windalf@xdsl-87-78-59-83.netcologne.de) left the chat room.
[10:31pm] ksuther (n=kent@c-71-192-136-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) left the chat room.
[10:31pm] nathan___ (n=nathan@129.21.136.245) joined the chat room.
[10:31pm] Crypt: wierd
[10:35pm] manung (n=manung@184.3.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net) left the chat room.
[10:35pm] manung (n=manung@184.3.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net) joined the chat room.
[10:36pm] nathan___ (n=nathan@129.21.136.245) left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[10:37pm] eitanko: anyways, i have to run guys...ttyl
[10:37pm] eitanko (n=eitan@cpe-72-225-237-159.nyc.res.rr.com) left the chat room.
[10:38pm] • pblair gathers up the log to paste
[10:38pm] nathan____ (n=nathan@129.21.136.245) joined the chat room.
[10:39pm] • jas8522 grabs his briefcase and runs