Time and Location
2007-02-01 @ 10pm EST (GMT-5) in #adium-mtg
Agenda
- The agenda got pushed to the next meeting due to the 1.0 release.
Log
(Time is in UTC+1)
Feb 02 03:45:51 <durin42> what happened to the meeting?
Feb 02 03:46:45 <hal2k> it's scheduled in 14 minutes
Feb 02 03:46:52 <hal2k> dunno if anything will happen
Feb 02 03:48:37 <The_Tick> top o the hour
Feb 02 03:56:13 <durin42> oh
Feb 02 03:56:22 <durin42> I was thinking EST for some reason
Feb 02 04:02:33 <The_Tick> alright folks
Feb 02 04:02:40 <The_Tick> let's give everyone 5 minutes
Feb 02 04:02:52 <The_Tick> is someone here available to log this?
Feb 02 04:03:10 <The_Tick> my httpd outbound is unfortunately just not working
Feb 02 04:03:25 --> Mac-arena (n=macrulez@growl/Mac-arena) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:03:38 <hal2k> The_Tick: I'm logging it either ways
Feb 02 04:03:47 <The_Tick> excellent
Feb 02 04:03:59 <The_Tick> would you mind posting it to the wiki when trac is back up all the way?
Feb 02 04:04:01 <durin42> I should be logging
Feb 02 04:04:09 <hal2k> I'll do that
Feb 02 04:04:14 <The_Tick> cool
Feb 02 04:04:23 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/
Feb 02 04:04:30 <durin42> there's a collection of screenshots there
Feb 02 04:04:52 * Mac-arena is about to log into Revver and upload all the movies so far (5, IHRC)
Feb 02 04:06:00 * edr1084 is finishing the rest of the help links and then will commit them to the branch for a test build
Feb 02 04:06:24 <Mac-arena> Actually just three. I forgot that I haven't put in the voice tracks on some of these yet
Feb 02 04:07:27 <The_Tick> Mac-arena: 3 is enough for now
Feb 02 04:07:33 <The_Tick> so rather than the agenda we have now
Feb 02 04:07:45 <The_Tick> I'd like to use a different agenda, and push most of that agenda to next week
Feb 02 04:08:05 <The_Tick> specifically to make this about the release, and then add anything else we can at the end of that
Feb 02 04:08:09 <The_Tick> are you guys ok with that?
Feb 02 04:08:22 <durin42> sure
Feb 02 04:08:23 <hal2k> yes
Feb 02 04:08:27 <durin42> let's get this thing out the door
Feb 02 04:08:33 --> evands (n=evands@adium/evands) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:08:46 <evands> Hey folks
Feb 02 04:08:49 <durin42> our fearless leader arrives
Feb 02 04:08:54 <edr1084> whoa
Feb 02 04:08:58 * evands shivers in feer
Feb 02 04:09:00 <The_Tick> hehe
Feb 02 04:09:02 <evands> see, i'm fearless
Feb 02 04:09:05 <evands> but i've got tons of feer
Feb 02 04:09:09 <The_Tick> dude
Feb 02 04:09:14 <The_Tick> grey's anatomy ruled :D
Feb 02 04:09:25 <evands> yeah, that was a great episode
Feb 02 04:09:30 <The_Tick> poison blood ftw
Feb 02 04:09:31 <The_Tick> heh
Feb 02 04:09:38 <The_Tick> house is better though :P
Feb 02 04:09:50 <The_Tick> evands: I've asked everyone if the agenda can be mostly about the release
Feb 02 04:09:54 <The_Tick> everyone seems fine so far
Feb 02 04:10:16 <durin42> everyone wants the final release to be out
Feb 02 04:10:22 <The_Tick> ya, agreed
Feb 02 04:10:25 <The_Tick> ok, it's 10 after
Feb 02 04:10:28 <The_Tick> do we want to start?
Feb 02 04:10:44 <Mac-arena> bah, wrong channel
Feb 02 04:10:46 <Mac-arena> BAH
Feb 02 04:10:46 <durin42> go go gadget meeting
Feb 02 04:10:48 <Mac-arena> Did anybody do anything to the changelog that I put in svn/branches/Changelog?
Feb 02 04:10:55 * The_Tick hasn't
Feb 02 04:10:55 <evands> elliot and i are playing with trying to fix this AIM file transfer bug
Feb 02 04:10:57 <durin42> nope
Feb 02 04:13:12 <evands> update for the group: AIM file transfer in Gaim is perfect.
Feb 02 04:13:12 <Mac-arena> It's still just the b1 changelog, then
Feb 02 04:13:12 <evands> Direct Connect appears to be pretty awesome, too
Feb 02 04:13:12 <The_Tick> sweet
Feb 02 04:13:12 <evands> However, in Adium it fails regularly.
Feb 02 04:13:12 <evands> Anyways
Feb 02 04:13:12 <evands> Mac-arena: So what's the changelog story?
Feb 02 04:13:12 <Mac-arena> I copied the b1 changelog (Trac WikiFormatting version) into branches/Changelog so that others could work on it while I was doing screencasts. I haven't gotten around to doing anything on it myself.
Feb 02 04:13:12 --> Catfish_Man (n=david@adium/CatfishMan) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:13:12 <durin42> heh
Feb 02 04:13:12 <durin42> someone host a see session then?
Feb 02 04:13:12 <Mac-arena> Sure.
Feb 02 04:13:12 <durin42> we're gonna need to get that thing done in a hurry
Feb 02 04:13:19 --> bgannin (n=bgannin@CPE-24-27-152-25.neb.res.rr.com) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:13:34 <Mac-arena> Indeed. And I have roughly eight minutes while episode 0 re-exports (with the new signoff that I recorded, that I hadn't put on this one yet)
Feb 02 04:13:45 <Mac-arena> And then I get to re-export 1 and 2 as well.
Feb 02 04:13:50 <evands> Ah. I didn't realize.
Feb 02 04:13:51 <evands> Okee
Feb 02 04:13:56 --> proton (n=proton@unaffiliated/proton) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:13:58 <evands> So let's rock a changelog
Feb 02 04:14:09 <evands> What's our screnshot situation?
Feb 02 04:14:15 <The_Tick> durin42
Feb 02 04:14:33 <evands> edr1084 mentioned that a couple others were working, too
Feb 02 04:14:38 <Mac-arena> see://71.118.236.122
Feb 02 04:14:40 <Catfish_Man> I'm off work until sometime next week, so I'm happy to stay up until o'dark 30 doing stuff like that
Feb 02 04:14:56 <The_Tick> as far as I know
Feb 02 04:14:58 <Mac-arena> http://beta.adiumx.com/ for the other betas' changelogs
Feb 02 04:15:01 <The_Tick> durin42 is handling most of that
Feb 02 04:15:08 <The_Tick> regarding screenshots
Feb 02 04:15:26 --> patr1ck (i=patr1ck@adium/Patr1ck) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:15:40 <Catfish_Man> I've got some sweet desktop backgrounds we can use, although the cow one is probably still a better choice
Feb 02 04:15:46 <The_Tick> ellusionz was also helping
Feb 02 04:16:00 <The_Tick> we have enough people on the forums to make screenshots if we absolutely need it
Feb 02 04:18:12 <The_Tick> if we all can't do it
Feb 02 04:18:12 <Catfish_Man> that won't be necessary
Feb 02 04:18:12 <The_Tick> aye
Feb 02 04:18:12 <evands> yeah, the cow's been popular
Feb 02 04:18:12 <Mac-arena> I used the cow one in all the screencasts.
Feb 02 04:18:12 <evands> nice nod to keep adam's cow stuff alive, too :)
Feb 02 04:18:12 <Mac-arena> It's still set in my screencast account :)
Feb 02 04:18:12 <Catfish_Man> indeed
Feb 02 04:18:12 <The_Tick> one thing to note about the screencasting folks
Feb 02 04:18:12 <The_Tick> at the end there is going to be a short ad
Feb 02 04:18:12 <The_Tick> since we're using revver for this
Feb 02 04:18:12 <The_Tick> any proceeds that we get go directly to the donations account
Feb 02 04:18:41 <evands> do they give us a way of tracking that somewhere?
Feb 02 04:18:41 <The_Tick> peter and I have access to the account, but getting others into it will not be an issue
Feb 02 04:18:41 <evands> i mean i guess it'll be obvious
Feb 02 04:18:41 <The_Tick> yea, there are stats
Feb 02 04:18:41 <evands> we'll find a fun use for it :)
Feb 02 04:18:41 <The_Tick> I believe
Feb 02 04:18:49 <The_Tick> ze frank uses revver for The Show
Feb 02 04:18:54 <The_Tick> so they can handle our bandwidth
Feb 02 04:19:07 <evands> man, if we were paying for hosting and consulting, we would have spent a ton today
Feb 02 04:19:10 <Catfish_Man> yeah
Feb 02 04:19:11 <The_Tick> we just need a new ScreenCasts tab
Feb 02 04:19:16 <evands> with all the great (and therefore esspensive) folk who have helped
Feb 02 04:19:29 <Catfish_Man> here's the desktop I'm using right now, btw; http://dscoder.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=184&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Feb 02 04:19:33 <Mac-arena> Yeah, and Revver may also bring in some cash for Adium, depending on whether anybody clicks on the ads
Feb 02 04:19:40 <Mac-arena> (Revver puts an ad at the end of the movie)
Feb 02 04:19:41 <Catfish_Man> so far it's inspired mostly "are you on drugs?" comments
Feb 02 04:19:53 <The_Tick> we need to discuss trac
Feb 02 04:20:11 <Mac-arena> Is it broken, and if not, will it break?
Feb 02 04:20:17 <The_Tick> it will break
Feb 02 04:20:25 <The_Tick> currently everything but the index and roadmap works
Feb 02 04:20:25 <evands> Without the roadmap, it seems to be doing fairly well
Feb 02 04:20:36 <The_Tick> however, once we get more traffic on it
Feb 02 04:20:37 <evands> but that won't work out under a release-level load
Feb 02 04:20:39 <The_Tick> it's going to hose the box
Feb 02 04:20:43 <evands> right. chris, you go ahead. :-)
Feb 02 04:20:45 <Catfish_Man> evands: is the problem still the user permissions stuff?
Feb 02 04:20:46 <The_Tick> which also hosts svn, xtras and adiumx.com
Feb 02 04:20:57 <evands> Catfish_Man: that's what we're thinking is the problem with the roadmap, mainly
Feb 02 04:21:08 <evands> but just general usage doesn't scale to thousands of simultaneous users
Feb 02 04:21:11 <Catfish_Man> oh, also, is this system not capable of resource-limiting?
Feb 02 04:21:25 <Catfish_Man> 'cause I know launchd can assign hard cpu, etc... limits to a process
Feb 02 04:21:28 <The_Tick> trac isn't designed for that, I don't know about lighttpd
Feb 02 04:21:34 <Catfish_Man> The_Tick: no, linux or whatever
Feb 02 04:21:35 <Catfish_Man> not trac
Feb 02 04:21:38 <The_Tick> hrmm
Feb 02 04:21:50 <Catfish_Man> 'cause we could use that to make sure trac always dies instead of the bo
Feb 02 04:21:50 <Catfish_Man> x
Feb 02 04:21:51 <The_Tick> if you know of a way I'd be glad to get it looked at
Feb 02 04:21:53 <Mac-arena> Trac is FastCGI-based. It should theoretically be able to handle any load that doesn't cause, say, a DB lock
Feb 02 04:22:06 <hal2k> the roadmap should be cached, that would fix the speed issue mostly
Feb 02 04:22:08 <The_Tick> we're still on postgres, so db locks should be gone
Feb 02 04:22:22 <The_Tick> guys, not done :)
Feb 02 04:22:37 <The_Tick> noah is investigating a couple of things
Feb 02 04:22:41 <Catfish_Man> hal2k: it's weird, apparently each roadmap load triggers something like 2.6k calls to the user permissions lookup
Feb 02 04:23:05 <Catfish_Man> (if I read it right)
Feb 02 04:23:07 <The_Tick> specifically load balancing, the problems with the table lookups going nuts
Feb 02 04:23:10 <The_Tick> Catfish_Man: that's how I read it
Feb 02 04:23:11 <hal2k> Catfish_Man: is there a bug filed on this? a single lookup should be enough there
Feb 02 04:23:14 <evands> loading 568000 stack frames?
Feb 02 04:23:16 <evands> oops, sorry, wrong window.
Feb 02 04:23:19 <Catfish_Man> haha
Feb 02 04:23:22 <Catfish_Man> nice infinite recursion there
Feb 02 04:23:26 <Catfish_Man> hal2k: I agree
Feb 02 04:23:31 <The_Tick> hal2k: we have the guy who writes most of the trac plugins looking at the box directly
Feb 02 04:23:39 <The_Tick> filing tickets will be slower
Feb 02 04:23:39 <Mac-arena> 2,600... would that happen to correspond to the number of open tickets?
Feb 02 04:23:50 <Mac-arena> Maybe it's doing a permissions check so that it can read the title from each ticket.
Feb 02 04:23:51 <The_Tick> Mac-arena: could be
Feb 02 04:23:52 <Catfish_Man> actually, as a larger issue, it'd be *really nice* to make a static mirror of commonly used trac pages
Feb 02 04:23:55 <Catfish_Man> updated each day
Feb 02 04:24:05 <The_Tick> guys
Feb 02 04:24:06 <Catfish_Man> i.e. pull the roadmap once a day and mirror it to a page
Feb 02 04:24:08 <The_Tick> we can't use trac
Feb 02 04:24:09 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man: Or something like WP-Cache. Keep a static copy around until the thing changes.
Feb 02 04:24:10 <The_Tick> currently
Feb 02 04:24:16 <Catfish_Man> The_Tick: I'm talking later
Feb 02 04:24:24 <The_Tick> I'd like to figure out the now
Feb 02 04:24:31 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: or something like that, but we can rig my scheme with no trac hacking at all
Feb 02 04:24:33 <Catfish_Man> just curl and cron
Feb 02 04:24:45 <The_Tick> we have 2 options here currently
Feb 02 04:24:52 <The_Tick> - setup a new ticket system
Feb 02 04:25:05 <The_Tick> - put up a html page saying "sorry, too much users, use forums for bugs"
Feb 02 04:25:08 <The_Tick> or something like that
Feb 02 04:25:14 <Catfish_Man> #2
Feb 02 04:25:18 <The_Tick> I like #2
Feb 02 04:25:22 <Catfish_Man> while we look into other schemes
Feb 02 04:25:23 <bgannin> yup
Feb 02 04:25:33 <The_Tick> evands: you ok with #2?
Feb 02 04:25:34 <evands> #2
Feb 02 04:25:35 <evands> yes
Feb 02 04:25:38 <evands> i mentioned on the phone earlier
Feb 02 04:25:40 <The_Tick> alright, that's settled
Feb 02 04:25:48 <evands> #1 will be a waste of resources, because we'll have nothing but duplicates
Feb 02 04:25:48 <hal2k> having 4k bug reports in the forums would probably be a huge undertaking for the ones that transfer them to trac
Feb 02 04:25:49 <The_Tick> yea, just wanted it logged for posterity
Feb 02 04:26:05 <Catfish_Man> basic idea of other schemes, as I see it: make sure that Normals don't actually hit trac unless they're doing bug stuff
Feb 02 04:26:10 <The_Tick> hal2k: we generated 6k bugs in trac over the course of 2 years
Feb 02 04:26:15 <edr1084> so then does that mean hold off on some of my post release cleanup till we figure things out?
Feb 02 04:26:17 <The_Tick> I don't think we're going to generate 4k overnight
Feb 02 04:26:17 <Catfish_Man> that means roadmap, timeline, etc... all static
Feb 02 04:26:43 <The_Tick> the plan with trac, currently
Feb 02 04:26:46 <The_Tick> is a couple of angles
Feb 02 04:26:49 <The_Tick> that's one of them Catfish_Man
Feb 02 04:26:52 <evands> edr1084: yea
Feb 02 04:26:54 <The_Tick> caching rss is a big one
Feb 02 04:27:00 <edr1084> evands: alright
Feb 02 04:27:01 <The_Tick> we had a user hitting the rss feed once per second
Feb 02 04:27:09 <Catfish_Man> yeah, RSS is a retarded protocol
Feb 02 04:27:12 <Catfish_Man> polling for the lose
Feb 02 04:27:16 <evands> hal2k: I think that the forums are going to be for users to chat.. we can't transfer all that to trac later
Feb 02 04:27:17 <The_Tick> if we drop rss
Feb 02 04:27:18 <evands> it just won't be feasible
Feb 02 04:27:20 <proton> users are retarded in general :)
Feb 02 04:27:20 <The_Tick> we lose towncrier
Feb 02 04:27:37 <evands> i bet we can make a direct trac plugin
Feb 02 04:27:38 <The_Tick> proton: be nice, this is going to be on trac :)
Feb 02 04:27:47 <Mac-arena> Suppose we put it behind a l/p?
Feb 02 04:27:49 <evands> cut out the rss middleman
Feb 02 04:27:55 <evands> Mac-arena: or that, that's a good idea
Feb 02 04:27:56 <Mac-arena> TownCrier would have its own username and password for the RSS only
Feb 02 04:28:01 <Mac-arena> And everybody else: No RSS for you.
Feb 02 04:28:05 <evands> developers could use RSS, too
Feb 02 04:28:12 <evands> after promising not to use dumb feed readers
Feb 02 04:28:14 <Mac-arena> Yeah. But the users, no RSS.
Feb 02 04:28:21 <The_Tick> we may be able to attain another box
Feb 02 04:28:25 <The_Tick> just for trac and svn
Feb 02 04:28:29 <The_Tick> which would be more powerful
Feb 02 04:28:42 <The_Tick> if we need to use donations money to get it
Feb 02 04:28:45 <The_Tick> is everyone here ok with that?
Feb 02 04:29:00 * bgannin nods
Feb 02 04:29:01 <edr1084> sure
Feb 02 04:29:05 <Catfish_Man> we're not using it for anything else afaik
Feb 02 04:29:08 <evands> yeah
Feb 02 04:29:11 <evands> that's what it's there for
Feb 02 04:29:22 <The_Tick> goodie :)
Feb 02 04:29:26 <The_Tick> umm, so that's about it
Feb 02 04:29:31 <The_Tick> we need a html page written
Feb 02 04:29:35 <evands> so can someone do the trac page?
Feb 02 04:29:39 <Catfish_Man> sure
Feb 02 04:29:41 <Mac-arena> I love how FCE says "Estimated time remaining: 8 minutes", then finishes
Feb 02 04:29:46 <Mac-arena> Which Trac page?
Feb 02 04:29:52 <The_Tick> explain that digg and slashdot and whatnot took too much resources over the beta period
Feb 02 04:29:55 <The_Tick> well, not slashdot
Feb 02 04:29:56 <Catfish_Man> "zomg load"
Feb 02 04:29:57 <The_Tick> tuaw
Feb 02 04:30:06 <The_Tick> mention tuaw and digg specifically
Feb 02 04:30:09 <Catfish_Man> daringfireball
Feb 02 04:30:13 <Catfish_Man> ;P
Feb 02 04:30:14 <The_Tick> yea, him too
Feb 02 04:30:19 <The_Tick> he'll get a kick out of
Feb 02 04:30:21 <The_Tick> out of it
Feb 02 04:30:25 <The_Tick> oh, drunkenbatman ;)
Feb 02 04:30:28 <Catfish_Man> feh
Feb 02 04:30:31 <The_Tick> lol
Feb 02 04:30:37 <The_Tick> anyhow, who wants to make it
Feb 02 04:30:40 <Catfish_Man> I will
Feb 02 04:30:44 <The_Tick> cool
Feb 02 04:30:47 <The_Tick> make it work in ie if you can
Feb 02 04:30:47 <Catfish_Man> I made the static beta page, I can just crib off that
Feb 02 04:30:52 <The_Tick> that works
Feb 02 04:31:11 <The_Tick> we need to figure out if we're utilizing trac the proper way to begin with
Feb 02 04:31:21 <The_Tick> should we have user issues in the same area as dev issues
Feb 02 04:31:27 <The_Tick> at work we have separate systems
Feb 02 04:31:53 <hal2k> well, it makes sense to not complicate things
Feb 02 04:32:32 <hal2k> trac wasn't really designed for a 1e6-users-project I think
Feb 02 04:33:40 <The_Tick> it keeps things somewhat sane
Feb 02 04:33:40 <The_Tick> something to think about
Feb 02 04:33:40 <Catfish_Man> I think that it worked well when it didn't take an age and a half to load
Feb 02 04:33:40 <The_Tick> ya
Feb 02 04:33:40 <proton> user and developer stuff work better apart purely because users often don't provide a bug report in a manner that is good for a developer
Feb 02 04:33:40 <The_Tick> ok, that's all I have
Feb 02 04:33:40 <proton> but it requires you have enough people to monitor the user stuff and transfer relevent bugs to a developer system
Feb 02 04:33:40 <proton> basically you need a contact management system and bug management system
Feb 02 04:33:40 <Catfish_Man> hal2k: svn wasn't designed for gcc :)
Feb 02 04:33:40 <Catfish_Man> which is why svn 1.4 is so much faster
Feb 02 04:33:45 <The_Tick> oh ya
Feb 02 04:35:55 <proton> it would be nice if there was integration between the two, but that's not 100% essential
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> passwords
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> if I don't have you in svn, you should send me your password
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> I think everyone here has
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> ok, we need another rc out
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> to test the last bit of changes
Feb 02 04:35:55 <proton> need an rc until there's one that nothing changes but the versioning
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> yep
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> that's the plan
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> rc2
Feb 02 04:35:55 * Mac-arena sends The_Tick his password
Feb 02 04:35:55 <The_Tick> if no change, rc3
Feb 02 04:36:26 <Catfish_Man> argh, I was going to show you guys sparkweb, but it looks like the demo instance isn't accepting registration
Feb 02 04:36:26 <evands> i'd love to test out this gaim sockets fix
Feb 02 04:36:26 <edr1084> anyway want to help me with the helpviewer build when this last link page is finished and I get it committed?
Feb 02 04:36:26 <evands> if it works, it shouldn't cause new problems, but should fix the AIM file transfer problems
Feb 02 04:36:26 <The_Tick> do we want to postpone until tomorrow?
Feb 02 04:36:26 <edr1084> anyone*
Feb 02 04:36:26 <evands> no.
Feb 02 04:36:26 <The_Tick> hehe
Feb 02 04:36:26 <The_Tick> then we're all in for a late night
Feb 02 04:36:26 <Mac-arena> The_Tick: Do you not have your adiumx email on your PGP public key?
Feb 02 04:36:26 <evands> if there's any doubt at all, it can wait for 1.0.1
Feb 02 04:36:26 <proton> should I point out that if you choose "Add new theme" in the Appearance prefs -> Contact List and then hit cancel the menu starys selected on "Add new Theme" :)
Feb 02 04:36:26 <Catfish_Man> evands: I'm behind a bog standard consumer router if you want to send my way
Feb 02 04:36:26 <The_Tick> Mac-arena: growl
Feb 02 04:36:29 <The_Tick> only growl
Feb 02 04:36:38 <evands> proton: yes, but any time but tonight ;-)
Feb 02 04:36:48 <proton> heheh :)
Feb 02 04:36:58 <The_Tick> my net is dropping back and forth
Feb 02 04:37:37 <Catfish_Man> btw, we've got a bit of PR on the blog here; http://www.igniterealtime.org/
Feb 02 04:38:08 <The_Tick> heh
Feb 02 04:38:11 <The_Tick> we're going to have pr everywhere
Feb 02 04:38:15 <The_Tick> I have my tuaw guy all setup
Feb 02 04:38:18 <The_Tick> so long as he's online
Feb 02 04:38:45 <Catfish_Man> bgannin: "facilitate"? that's a bit... managerish
Feb 02 04:39:08 <Mac-arena> It also enables and empowers it.
Feb 02 04:39:12 <Mac-arena> ;)
Feb 02 04:39:18 <bgannin> Catfish_Man: better handle browsing sounds so odd to me
Feb 02 04:39:28 --> dantekgeek (n=dan_luri@c-71-56-255-121.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:39:32 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: tonight
Feb 02 04:39:35 <dantekgeek> Greetings earthlings
Feb 02 04:39:43 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: wfm
Feb 02 04:39:44 <The_Tick> guys, meet our tuaw contact
Feb 02 04:39:45 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man, bgannin: Check that out.
Feb 02 04:39:47 <Catfish_Man> hey dantekgeek
Feb 02 04:39:48 <dantekgeek> Any big feature set changes?
Feb 02 04:39:48 <evands> dantekgeek: hola
Feb 02 04:39:54 <Mac-arena> dantekgeek: Quite so.
Feb 02 04:39:57 <Catfish_Man> dantekgeek: 650 closed tickets or so
Feb 02 04:39:58 <dantekgeek> doh
Feb 02 04:39:59 <dantekgeek> right
Feb 02 04:40:00 <proton> dantekgeek: massive :)
Feb 02 04:40:03 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: got subethaedit?
Feb 02 04:40:08 * bgannin nods
Feb 02 04:40:14 <dantekgeek> I was thinking from the beta, but that's not what people are interersted in
Feb 02 04:40:14 <dantekgeek> yah
Feb 02 04:40:16 <The_Tick> someone message him the url
Feb 02 04:40:16 <Mac-arena> The_Tick: I'll save a copy for him
Feb 02 04:40:17 <dantekgeek> lemme get on
Feb 02 04:40:26 <Catfish_Man> bgannin: thoughts on the whitelist/blacklist thing?
Feb 02 04:40:31 <Catfish_Man> it's pretty important, but...
Feb 02 04:40:33 <The_Tick> ok, so what's left
Feb 02 04:40:34 <dantekgeek> i'm on
Feb 02 04:40:35 <The_Tick> - screenshots
Feb 02 04:40:52 <bgannin> Catfish_Man: improved blocking support (?)
Feb 02 04:40:58 <Mac-arena> http://71.118.236.122:8080/~prh/changes1.0-inprogress.txt
Feb 02 04:41:08 <Catfish_Man> bgannin: "More flexible blocking options"?
Feb 02 04:41:11 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: that's the changelog
Feb 02 04:41:11 <dantekgeek> it would make my job a billion times easier if you guys came up with a list of the new features
Feb 02 04:41:13 <Mac-arena> Still being worked on. The final version will be filtered through Trac to become a real HTML file.
Feb 02 04:41:13 <evands> dantekgeek: a couple big crash fixes from the beta
Feb 02 04:41:14 <dantekgeek> awesome
Feb 02 04:41:20 <dantekgeek> yes, like a changelog!
Feb 02 04:41:21 <dantekgeek> brilliant
Feb 02 04:41:23 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: I dare you to post the entire thing to the frontpage ;)
Feb 02 04:41:27 <Catfish_Man> haha
Feb 02 04:41:28 <bgannin> Catfish_Man: that work
Feb 02 04:41:29 <bgannin> *s
Feb 02 04:41:31 <dantekgeek> The_Tick: hehe
Feb 02 04:41:32 <proton> hahaha
Feb 02 04:41:55 <dantekgeek> god dammit
Feb 02 04:42:01 <dantekgeek> how the hell do I open this in SEA
Feb 02 04:42:04 <dantekgeek> *SEE
Feb 02 04:42:09 <Mac-arena> You don't. It's a webpage.
Feb 02 04:42:12 <dantekgeek> ohh
Feb 02 04:42:18 <The_Tick> Mac-arena: what's your commit id again?
Feb 02 04:42:19 <The_Tick> boredzo?
Feb 02 04:42:22 <Mac-arena> Aye.
Feb 02 04:42:24 <The_Tick> kk
Feb 02 04:42:25 <The_Tick> sec
Feb 02 04:42:57 <The_Tick> done
Feb 02 04:43:01 <The_Tick> ok, so
Feb 02 04:43:03 <The_Tick> - rc2
Feb 02 04:43:06 <The_Tick> - screenshots
Feb 02 04:43:08 <The_Tick> - finish changelog
Feb 02 04:43:12 * Mac-arena fixed up the #920 line; check it out
Feb 02 04:43:13 <The_Tick> - trac replacement page
Feb 02 04:43:18 <dantekgeek> title of the post will be: "Big News: Adium reaches 1.0"
Feb 02 04:43:23 <Mac-arena> Sweet.
Feb 02 04:44:03 <dantekgeek> how long ago was adium started?
Feb 02 04:44:05 <dantekgeek> first release
Feb 02 04:44:06 <dantekgeek> .1
Feb 02 04:44:11 <The_Tick> there is no .1
Feb 02 04:44:20 <dantekgeek> you know what I mean
Feb 02 04:44:23 <dantekgeek> I want to say how long its taken
Feb 02 04:44:29 <The_Tick> 4 years
Feb 02 04:44:47 <patr1ck> 0.5 was in 2003, iirc
Feb 02 04:44:52 <dantekgeek> estimated number of contributors to code?
Feb 02 04:44:57 <The_Tick> 30?
Feb 02 04:44:57 <dantekgeek> (major contributors)
Feb 02 04:45:00 <The_Tick> plus libgaim
Feb 02 04:45:03 <dantekgeek> k
Feb 02 04:45:11 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: look on adiumx.com/blog
Feb 02 04:45:15 <The_Tick> big post I just made
Feb 02 04:45:18 <The_Tick> it'll help some
Feb 02 04:45:55 <evands> major contributors != 30
Feb 02 04:45:57 <-- eharris has quit ()
Feb 02 04:46:10 <The_Tick> heh, he said that after :P
Feb 02 04:46:11 <evands> actually, maybe that's not that far off
Feb 02 04:46:17 <The_Tick> chris s
Feb 02 04:46:20 <The_Tick> dchoby
Feb 02 04:46:23 <The_Tick> iser
Feb 02 04:46:34 <The_Tick> evan, colin, peter, david s, myself
Feb 02 04:46:37 <Mac-arena> At some point, I need to memorize the difference between the insert and overwrite cursors in FCe
Feb 02 04:46:37 <The_Tick> graham, alan
Feb 02 04:46:38 <Mac-arena> FCE
Feb 02 04:46:38 <proton> if you count people who've written more than say a thousand lines of code I'd say it'd be up there
Feb 02 04:46:40 <evands> nope, 30 is pretty reasonable
Feb 02 04:46:43 <The_Tick> proton
Feb 02 04:46:47 <Mac-arena> The_Tick: Adam
Feb 02 04:46:47 <The_Tick> yea
Feb 02 04:46:53 <Mac-arena> Kiel.
Feb 02 04:46:53 <The_Tick> which one? :P
Feb 02 04:46:57 <evands> I rescind my statement :)
Feb 02 04:47:02 <hal2k> what about this list: http://trac.adiumx.com/wiki/AdiumDevelopers
Feb 02 04:47:05 <Mac-arena> Betts hasn't contributed any code that I know of :)
Feb 02 04:47:07 <evands> A TRAC!!!!
Feb 02 04:47:15 <Mac-arena> ATRAC is evil! AAC FTW!
Feb 02 04:47:30 <evands> I consider Betts a significant contributor, though... every epic program needs an epic mascot :)
Feb 02 04:47:36 <evands> and the 1.0 disk image background is the hotness.
Feb 02 04:47:44 <dantekgeek> 39
Feb 02 04:47:45 * Mac-arena sighs, since he can't listen to Jessica by the Allman Brothers Band and edit a voice track at the same time.
Feb 02 04:47:47 <evands> (as are the new default emoticons and preferences icons)
Feb 02 04:47:57 <evands> Mac-arena: I bought Guitar Hero 2 just to play Jessica, basically.
Feb 02 04:48:19 <evands> Ok
Feb 02 04:48:20 <Mac-arena> Also, FCE doesn't let me play it in the background. Foiled!
Feb 02 04:48:27 <evands> so this AIM fix isn't going too well
Feb 02 04:48:32 <The_Tick> back it out
Feb 02 04:48:35 <evands> we know where the problem is, though
Feb 02 04:48:38 <evands> and we'll deal with it asap
Feb 02 04:48:39 <The_Tick> next week :)
Feb 02 04:49:40 <dantekgeek> "The most significant update in ____
Feb 02 04:49:40 <The_Tick> did we have any other release related topics?
Feb 02 04:49:44 <dantekgeek> I need a $timeperiod
Feb 02 04:49:50 <Mac-arena> dantekgeek: 100 years.
Feb 02 04:49:51 <Mac-arena> ;)
Feb 02 04:49:53 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: over a year and a half
Feb 02 04:50:08 <evands> since 0.80
Feb 02 04:50:10 <evands> so since 5/3/2005
Feb 02 04:50:20 <Catfish_Man> yeah, 0.80 was pretty awesome :)
Feb 02 04:50:23 <evands> over a year and a half it is
Feb 02 04:50:41 <proton> over a year and a half or almost 2 years, which sounds more impressive? :)
Feb 02 04:50:47 <evands> ummm
Feb 02 04:51:00 <dantekgeek> "over" sounds better than "almost"
Feb 02 04:51:08 <Mac-arena> Almost two, since it's about 1.75 years in fact.
Feb 02 04:51:14 <Mac-arena> OK, whichever :)
Feb 02 04:51:14 <evands> is http://www.adiumx.com/Adium0.80-fullchanges.txt redirecting to trac for anyone else?
Feb 02 04:51:16 <The_Tick> but this is marketting
Feb 02 04:51:18 <evands> and... HOW
Feb 02 04:51:22 <Mac-arena> evands: Yup.
Feb 02 04:51:22 <The_Tick> so it doesn't make sense Mac-arena
Feb 02 04:51:34 <proton> yes it is evands, and presumably with some apache config magic
Feb 02 04:51:51 * evands eyes apache suspiciously
Feb 02 04:52:34 <dantekgeek> when did 1.0 reach beta?
Feb 02 04:52:37 <The_Tick> we could redirect any requests to trac.adiumx.com to this html page
Feb 02 04:52:43 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: beta page
Feb 02 04:52:44 <The_Tick> bottom
Feb 02 04:52:47 <The_Tick> has the date
Feb 02 04:52:53 --> eharris_ (n=eharris@cpe-76-185-8-100.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:56:28 <proton> 1.0b1 - Tuesday, July 4, 2006
Feb 02 04:56:28 <proton> (eep)
Feb 02 04:56:28 <Mac-arena> Wow, this voice track for ep 3 is spectacularly bad.
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> far too long
Feb 02 04:56:28 <Mac-arena> "I'll begin by jobble-clicking on Colin, who is another of our developers. Chat window opens. ..."
Feb 02 04:56:28 <Mac-arena> That's what I get for voice-tracking when tired.
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> Mac-arena: 3 is plenty good to start with
Feb 02 04:56:28 --> cbarrett (i=ramoth4@adium/cbarrett) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> so right, I guess it's been an hour
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> the meeting has become more of a 1.0 release channel anyhow
Feb 02 04:56:28 <cbarrett> did I miss this?
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> by an hour
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> no biggy
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> we postponed the agenda to next time
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> pretty much
Feb 02 04:56:28 <cbarrett> Ah, sure.
Feb 02 04:56:28 <cbarrett> when is next time?
Feb 02 04:56:28 <cbarrett> i went to eat and got held up and stuff
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> stuff happens
Feb 02 04:56:28 <cbarrett> also was under the impression it was 9 :(
Feb 02 04:56:28 <The_Tick> 9 cst :)
Feb 02 04:56:28 <Mac-arena> That's basically my situation, too. I came in at 19:03, after dinner and errands and stuph.
Feb 02 04:56:28 <evands> http://www.adiumx.com/changelogs/Adium0.80-fullchanges.txt
Feb 02 04:56:28 <cbarrett> but that's my fault for entering it into my calendar wrong
Feb 02 04:56:28 <evands> there's the 0.80 changelog
Feb 02 04:56:28 <evands> alive again
Feb 02 04:56:28 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: Coulda just double-clickied on the .ics.
Feb 02 04:56:28 <Mac-arena> It would've done the Right Thing.
Feb 02 04:56:29 <The_Tick> ya, we're not going to get this all right the first time anyhow
Feb 02 04:56:30 <proton> evands: the real question is: how are those tasty sandwiches?
Feb 02 04:56:31 <cbarrett> But I'm not using iCal
Feb 02 04:56:32 <The_Tick> so it's no biggy
Feb 02 04:56:38 <evands> proton: true to their word, quite tasty.
Feb 02 04:56:39 <cbarrett> maybe I should be.
Feb 02 04:56:41 <evands> a little stale now, though
Feb 02 04:56:45 <Mac-arena> iCal is yummy.
Feb 02 04:56:46 <evands> we need to acquire new ones.
Feb 02 04:57:20 <The_Tick> we need a bit more tidbits in the changelog
Feb 02 04:57:23 * Mac-arena decides to excise those first two statements, and re-record them later
Feb 02 04:57:26 * The_Tick installs see 2.5
Feb 02 04:57:36 <Mac-arena> May as well get 2.6, while you're at it.
Feb 02 04:57:55 <Catfish_Man> bgannin: we're totally leaving the jokes in
Feb 02 04:58:05 <bgannin> k
Feb 02 04:58:09 <dantekgeek> where will the changelog be when it goes live?
Feb 02 04:58:12 <The_Tick> Mac-arena: whatever is latest is mine
Feb 02 04:58:23 <Catfish_Man> dantekgeek: http://www.adiumx.com/changelogs/
Feb 02 04:58:36 <Mac-arena> More like /changelogs/1.0.html.
Feb 02 04:58:38 <dantekgeek> so it will be 1.0.html?
Feb 02 04:58:43 <dantekgeek> cool
Feb 02 04:58:45 <Mac-arena> (Following the pattern of the existing files there)
Feb 02 04:58:47 <The_Tick> more than likely
Feb 02 04:59:09 <The_Tick> and it crashed
Feb 02 04:59:19 <Mac-arena> The_Tick: I'll let you or zac or evands know when, after the changelog is done, I've filtered it through Trac and thereby have an HTML file you can put at /changelogs/1.0.html.
Feb 02 04:59:48 <evands> Do we need it as an HTML file?
Feb 02 04:59:52 <evands> Oh, right, for the beta users
Feb 02 04:59:59 <The_Tick> oh right
Feb 02 05:00:01 <The_Tick> alpha users
Feb 02 05:00:09 <evands> alpha?: P
Feb 02 05:00:17 <The_Tick> remember the issue I brought up a week ago
Feb 02 05:00:19 <The_Tick> or two weeks ago
Feb 02 05:00:21 <Catfish_Man> he's worried (probably correctly) that a few people are still on the alphas
Feb 02 05:00:37 <The_Tick> I'd like them to move to rc2
Feb 02 05:00:52 <The_Tick> if that's viable
Feb 02 05:01:12 <evands> which alphas?
Feb 02 05:01:13 <The_Tick> cbarrett: I have something we need done
Feb 02 05:01:18 <The_Tick> a20ish
Feb 02 05:01:24 <cbarrett> a20?
Feb 02 05:01:25 <evands> ummm
Feb 02 05:01:35 <evands> did the appcast actually update on 1.0rc1?
Feb 02 05:01:41 <Catfish_Man> evands: no, not afaik
Feb 02 05:01:47 <evands> Adium_1.0b24.dmg: 129, 873 downloads
Feb 02 05:01:55 <evands> Adium_1.0rc1.dmg: 3,054 downloads
Feb 02 05:02:01 <The_Tick> probably why there's only 6 crashers :P
Feb 02 05:02:05 <evands> that'd do it :)
Feb 02 05:02:12 <The_Tick> cbarrett: screenshots
Feb 02 05:02:17 <The_Tick> I have people in #adium making some
Feb 02 05:02:20 <evands> well it's updated now
Feb 02 05:02:21 <cbarrett> what's a20
Feb 02 05:02:30 <The_Tick> a20 is an alpha version we had
Feb 02 05:02:33 <The_Tick> last one afaik
Feb 02 05:02:46 <The_Tick> the concern is that the move to betas left them behind
Feb 02 05:03:12 <evands> so?
Feb 02 05:03:26 <Catfish_Man> evands: they used a different appcast url
Feb 02 05:03:30 <evands> ah
Feb 02 05:03:32 <evands> k
Feb 02 05:03:34 <Catfish_Man> someone wanna get Adam Bett's new prefs icons in the changelog?
Feb 02 05:03:36 <Catfish_Man> that's a cool deal
Feb 02 05:04:04 <The_Tick> hell ya
Feb 02 05:04:43 <The_Tick> ooh, the see crash reporter is nice
Feb 02 05:05:08 <evands> colin put the new google crash reporting framework on the to-talk-about list for the meeting
Feb 02 05:05:21 <evands> i think most of the stuff we want to discuss will happen next time, as release is more primary right now
Feb 02 05:05:28 <evands> but as a side note, i've looked at it, too -- it sounds pretty nice
Feb 02 05:05:34 <Mac-arena> Added the prefs icons, and app icon, at the top of the UI section
Feb 02 05:05:47 <The_Tick> hrmm
Feb 02 05:05:52 <The_Tick> we need one more silly entry
Feb 02 05:05:58 --> ksuther (n=kent@cpe-72-226-232-173.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 05:06:00 <Catfish_Man> The_Tick: meh, we're good I think
Feb 02 05:06:14 <The_Tick> I was thinking something, about hair from the 70's
Feb 02 05:06:17 <Catfish_Man> http://dscoder.com/adiumscreenshots/ <-- two screenshots from ellusionz, plus one random one I uploaded into the wrong folder that's unrelated but pretty awesome
Feb 02 05:06:50 <evands> hm
Feb 02 05:06:53 <-- ksuther (n=kent@cpe-72-226-232-173.rochester.res.rr.com) has left #adium-mtg
Feb 02 05:07:04 <Mac-arena> Bye, ksuther!
Feb 02 05:07:09 <The_Tick> we need urls to background images if possible
Feb 02 05:07:22 <The_Tick> you know we'll get hounded about the cats
Feb 02 05:07:22 <evands> one thing that's really nice about the current screen shots is that they fit nicely without resizing a browser window
Feb 02 05:07:31 <Mac-arena> The_Tick: ?
Feb 02 05:07:36 <evands> and will go well when we switch to something fancier that pops up images on hover or on click
Feb 02 05:07:36 <The_Tick> I think the current with lightshow or whatever
Feb 02 05:07:37 <hal2k> Catfish_Man: is having a screenname of an adium dev on an official screenshot really a good idea?
Feb 02 05:07:39 <evands> rather than changing pages
Feb 02 05:07:41 <The_Tick> like we utilize on saltatory
Feb 02 05:07:43 <Catfish_Man> hal2k: not sure :)
Feb 02 05:07:45 <The_Tick> would cover us for now
Feb 02 05:07:51 <Mac-arena> I created a special screen name for the screencasts.
Feb 02 05:07:54 <evands> yeah, The_Tick, i like those
Feb 02 05:07:57 <Mac-arena> It's the whole 555 issue.
Feb 02 05:08:03 <cbarrett> okay back
Feb 02 05:08:14 <Mac-arena> OK Go.
Feb 02 05:08:20 <evands> i think the message window should be closer to the contact list
Feb 02 05:08:21 <cbarrett> I don't mind getting IMs from users.
Feb 02 05:08:24 <cbarrett> So it's fine.
Feb 02 05:08:30 <evands> having only one tab open is a bit awkward, too
Feb 02 05:08:33 <hal2k> cbarrett: like 10 per second? :)
Feb 02 05:08:45 <cbarrett> then I block everyone not on my list for a while.
Feb 02 05:08:52 <cbarrett> Also I doubt that that many people will IM me.
Feb 02 05:09:05 <cbarrett> Also my SN is on trac anyway
Feb 02 05:09:07 <evands> edr1084: how's the help coming?
Feb 02 05:09:15 <cbarrett> I do occasionally get IMs from users too
Feb 02 05:09:19 <edr1084> I'm looking at a css issue, then committing
Feb 02 05:09:23 <evands> great
Feb 02 05:09:32 <Mac-arena> I get very occasional IMs from users. The last one was actually referred by cbarrett.
Feb 02 05:09:47 <edr1084> The_Tick: directs them to me all the time ;)
Feb 02 05:09:48 <evands> are the adiumy emoticons the default?
Feb 02 05:09:48 <Mac-arena> And the second- or third-to-last one before that was referred by evands.
Feb 02 05:09:51 <cbarrett> btw, when I wrote up the meeting notes I thought 1.0 was coming out on feb1, not 1.0rc1
Feb 02 05:09:52 <Mac-arena> evands: No.
Feb 02 05:09:54 <Mac-arena> Default is the default.
Feb 02 05:09:56 <evands> kk
Feb 02 05:09:57 <The_Tick> edr1084: of course
Feb 02 05:09:58 <Mac-arena> That's why we called it that. :)
Feb 02 05:10:02 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: 1.0rc1 came out yesterday
Feb 02 05:10:05 <The_Tick> edr1084: so they can be your ticket techs
Feb 02 05:10:10 <evands> i love the adiumy ones, personally; i can't decide if we should default them or not ;)
Feb 02 05:10:10 <edr1084> heh
Feb 02 05:10:19 <edr1084> ticket techs == minions
Feb 02 05:10:20 <The_Tick> we should
Feb 02 05:10:26 <cbarrett> I haven't seen them
Feb 02 05:10:27 <Catfish_Man> evands: here's the screenshot I took of some stuff for Jive. I rather like the way it came out: http://www.igniterealtime.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/shiny.jpg
Feb 02 05:10:42 <The_Tick> that's nice
Feb 02 05:10:59 <The_Tick> Catfish_Man: snarfer has screenies
Feb 02 05:11:00 <evands> Catfish_Man: nice
Feb 02 05:11:01 <The_Tick> in a few
Feb 02 05:11:23 <The_Tick> bah, maybe not
Feb 02 05:11:29 <The_Tick> he's saying he wants to blur them
Feb 02 05:11:30 <The_Tick> ugh
Feb 02 05:12:38 <cbarrett> Have you guys seen this?
Feb 02 05:12:38 <cbarrett> http://www.adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=xtras&xtra_id=2551
Feb 02 05:12:39 <evands> that's what aliases are for
Feb 02 05:12:49 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: yes, I helped him out some
Feb 02 05:12:58 <evands> ya
Feb 02 05:13:06 <The_Tick> we should ship that eventually
Feb 02 05:13:15 <The_Tick> button in general or something
Feb 02 05:13:50 <Catfish_Man> meh
Feb 02 05:13:50 <Mac-arena> Anybody know a way to insert n seconds of nothing in just one track?
Feb 02 05:14:11 <bgannin> crop the audio and drag the tracks apart?
Feb 02 05:14:20 <cbarrett> or improve the actual Xtras Manager.
Feb 02 05:14:38 <Mac-arena> I don't want to do anything to the audio. I just want to insert a gap in my video that I can resize to match the audio.
Feb 02 05:14:51 <Mac-arena> The audio is already more or less in place; it doesn't need to move.
Feb 02 05:14:59 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: yes, that's my idea :)
Feb 02 05:15:04 <Catfish_Man> it's *hella* crippled
Feb 02 05:15:24 <bgannin> gap == black || what?
Feb 02 05:15:36 <Mac-arena> Black or nothing. Doesn't matter too much to me.
Feb 02 05:15:55 <bgannin> simplest solution would be to grab a black frame and set it's duration to whatever you want
Feb 02 05:16:25 <bgannin> dont quite know the workflow for that in FCE, but that's the technique I'd go with
Feb 02 05:17:40 <Mac-arena> That's called a slug in FCE, and you get that by simply opening the viewer to nothing. The problem is inserting that into the video track without disturbing the audio tracks.
Feb 02 05:17:55 <Mac-arena> I figured it out, though. I can lock the audio tracks, and then they don't receive the audio track of the slug.
Feb 02 05:18:10 <bgannin> woo
Feb 02 05:18:43 <The_Tick> guys
Feb 02 05:18:46 <The_Tick> we might be able to use trac
Feb 02 05:18:52 <The_Tick> go load the roadmap
Feb 02 05:19:16 <Mac-arena> Tasty.
Feb 02 05:19:21 <Catfish_Man> definitely snappier
Feb 02 05:19:46 <evands> what changed??
Feb 02 05:20:08 <The_Tick> 2 things
Feb 02 05:20:14 <The_Tick> switched to psycopg2
Feb 02 05:20:19 <The_Tick> which we had on imajes box
Feb 02 05:20:24 <The_Tick> and he got the permissions stuff to cache
Feb 02 05:20:30 <evands> nice
Feb 02 05:21:34 <cbarrett> Trac won't keep me @#$!@$ing logged in
Feb 02 05:21:36 <Catfish_Man> oooh, 500 internal server error
Feb 02 05:21:58 <cbarrett> uhhh
Feb 02 05:21:58 <Mac-arena> "500 ISE" would be a good name for a brand of liquor.
Feb 02 05:22:02 <cbarrett> why can't I log in?
Feb 02 05:22:38 <hal2k> I can't log in either
Feb 02 05:22:40 <The_Tick> because it's not all fixed
Feb 02 05:22:43 <The_Tick> stop trying to log in
Feb 02 05:22:51 <proton> still seems to take about 5-7 seconds to load the roadmap
Feb 02 05:22:59 <proton> (well for it to start returning the page to me)
Feb 02 05:23:01 <The_Tick> proton: ya, better than 3-5 minutes
Feb 02 05:23:23 <proton> still mightly slow, any idea what makes it that slow? just terribly inefficient SQL or something?
Feb 02 05:23:25 <hal2k> the page is pretty large, so expect a few seconds
Feb 02 05:23:31 <proton> or poor database design?
Feb 02 05:23:54 <proton> hal2k: i'm only talking time for it to start sending me the page
Feb 02 05:24:24 <hal2k> proton: it has to query all tickets, that's a huge set
Feb 02 05:24:52 <edr1084> evands: css issue resolved, time to rebuild the help indexes and then it'll get committed momentarily
Feb 02 05:24:54 <proton> hal2k: sure, but with postgres most of that query could be done in the database
Feb 02 05:25:03 <evands> edr1084: great :)
Feb 02 05:25:04 <proton> and appropriately indexed etc it should be fine
Feb 02 05:27:23 <edr1084> bah, guess it should be panther compatible as well
Feb 02 05:27:26 <bgannin> should Fire importing have an entire?
Feb 02 05:27:27 * edr1084 checks the box
Feb 02 05:27:29 <bgannin> *entry
Feb 02 05:27:53 <bgannin> (scratch) should Fire importing have an entry?
Feb 02 05:29:37 <evands> proposed screen shot in the Fun category: http://evands.penguinmilitia.net/multiwindow.png
Feb 02 05:31:58 <The_Tick> bgannin: yes
Feb 02 05:32:59 <bgannin> " * Added support for importing accounts, configuration, and logs from Fire" (?)
Feb 02 05:33:03 <evands> are we really shipping just 3 contact list layouts and themes?
Feb 02 05:33:07 <evands> ...?
Feb 02 05:33:24 <Catfish_Man> hm... I thought the idea was to do 4
Feb 02 05:33:28 <Catfish_Man> I wonder what happened to the last one
Feb 02 05:34:48 <Mac-arena> bgannin: Why wouldn't it?
Feb 02 05:35:17 <proton> from what I can see of the database format I think the roadmap code is just terribly inefficient :-/
Feb 02 05:35:33 <proton> it should be possible to calculate all that stuff in the database
Feb 02 05:35:47 <hal2k> proton: is that faster than doing the stuff in python?
Feb 02 05:36:31 <proton> it should be significantly faster
Feb 02 05:36:41 <proton> the database engine has a lot more to work with
Feb 02 05:38:07 <The_Tick> proton: think you could work on that and get them some patches?
Feb 02 05:38:27 <The_Tick> he's going to load test trac
Feb 02 05:39:19 <proton> i don't know if I understand trac well enough to play with that stuff
Feb 02 05:39:19 <evands> is there a see session going on the changelog that I missed a link to?
Feb 02 05:39:23 <Mac-arena> We may be the first people to weather the combined digg, TUAW, VT, and MU effects. :)
Feb 02 05:39:24 <Mac-arena> evands: Yes.
Feb 02 05:39:27 <Catfish_Man> evands: yeah
Feb 02 05:39:44 <Mac-arena> s/weather/try to &/
Feb 02 05:39:51 <proton> evands: see://24.10.95.71
Feb 02 05:39:58 <Mac-arena> ?
Feb 02 05:40:01 <Mac-arena> That's not my IP.
Feb 02 05:40:13 * evands eyes proton's link suspiciously
Feb 02 05:40:15 <proton> sigh, sorry, silly SEE is getting confused :)
Feb 02 05:40:18 <evands> is that going to redirect to goatse or someting?
Feb 02 05:40:25 <proton> see://71.118.236.122
Feb 02 05:40:27 <Mac-arena> ASCII goatse.
Feb 02 05:40:37 <Mac-arena> That looks more like my IP. :)
Feb 02 05:41:17 <proton> The_Tick: how big is a database dump of the adium trac?
Feb 02 05:41:59 <evands> 54 mb
Feb 02 05:42:04 <evands> plus/minus a bit
Feb 02 05:42:19 <Mac-arena> 54 millibits, plus or minus 1000 millibits.
Feb 02 05:42:38 <proton> ok, that'd be the easiest thing for me to have a play to see how much faster it could get
Feb 02 05:42:50 <proton> run it in a local postgres sever for a bit basically
Feb 02 05:42:50 <evands> proton: one sec
Feb 02 05:43:12 <evands> tar.gz is 9914234 :)
Feb 02 05:43:24 <proton> that's fine, i'm on 100mbit here ;-)
Feb 02 05:43:32 <proton> easy done :)
Feb 02 05:43:33 <The_Tick> proton: msg
Feb 02 05:43:41 <evands> The_Tick: I've copied it in for him
Feb 02 05:43:46 <The_Tick> ah, ok
Feb 02 05:44:09 <dantekgeek> The_Tick: ping me when you go live and i'll publish
Feb 02 05:44:28 <Catfish_Man> evands: which part of the sentence is your comment there referring to?
Feb 02 05:44:30 <proton> excellent, I'll toss that into my test postgres server and see how fast I can make queries to get that data
Feb 02 05:44:30 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: someone here will
Feb 02 05:44:34 <The_Tick> dantekgeek: I'll probably be asleep
Feb 02 05:44:38 <proton> and then I've got to work out how the hell to make trac use the faster queries :)
Feb 02 05:44:40 <evands> all of it.. i think direct connect hits the same problem
Feb 02 05:44:50 <evands> god, i want to fix it NOW
Feb 02 05:44:52 <Mac-arena> Yargh. I hate when I don't record enough video to properly loop a heartbeat animation (e.g. insertion point blinking).
Feb 02 05:45:08 <evands> really frustrates me that CFSocket is responsible
Feb 02 05:45:23 <evands> proton: cool
Feb 02 05:46:42 <Mac-arena> evands: What's wrong with CFSocket?
Feb 02 05:47:15 <evands> It's the awful
Feb 02 05:48:02 <evands> It's unclear what *exactly* the problem is, but it's the only difference in our network traffic and Gaim's, so it's definitely responsible in some way -- whether by its own problems or by problems with our usage -- for the fact that file transfers that work great in Gaim fail in Adium
Feb 02 05:48:02 <Catfish_Man> heh, "CFSomething" M-a: *perks up*
Feb 02 05:48:25 <evands> the basic problem which I thought I'd successfully worked around is that CFSocketCreate() returns an existing socket if there is on for the passed fd
Feb 02 05:48:42 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man: ;)
Feb 02 05:48:47 <hal2k> evands: why is that a problem?
Feb 02 05:48:52 <evands> and using CFSocketSetFlags() on an existing socket doesn't work properly
Feb 02 05:48:54 <hal2k> evands: fd are reference counted
Feb 02 05:49:03 <evands> hal2k: not relevant here
Feb 02 05:49:18 <evands> the problem is that to take a socket added to a run loop already for, say, reading
Feb 02 05:49:28 <evands> and then also begin listening for writing on the same fd
Feb 02 05:49:37 <evands> you have to invalidate and destroy the socket, then create a new one which does both
Feb 02 05:49:52 <evands> adiumGaimEventLoop.m is the code in question
Feb 02 05:49:58 <Mac-arena> Couldn't just invalidate it and re-add it?
Feb 02 05:50:28 <evands> I'm not sure how that's different -- could you be more explicit?
Feb 02 05:50:30 <edr1084> The_Tick: did you re-add me to svn?
Feb 02 05:50:55 <Mac-arena> Invalidate should just remove it from the run loop. Can you not simply invalidate it, then re-add the same socket to the run loop as rw?
Feb 02 05:51:18 <The_Tick> edr1084: probably not yet
Feb 02 05:51:20 <The_Tick> otr me
Feb 02 05:51:32 <edr1084> I noticed when I tried to commit this ;)
Feb 02 05:52:07 <Mac-arena> evands: Maybe not. What about setting the CFSocket flags to not close the native handle, then retrieving the native handle and creating a new CFSocket with it?
Feb 02 05:52:38 <evands> Mac-arena: That sounds so straightforward that I want to say I tried it.
Feb 02 05:52:41 <evands> but I can't recall doing so.
Feb 02 05:52:49 <Mac-arena> Even more straightforward
Feb 02 05:52:51 <Mac-arena> What about CFSocketEnableCallBacks?
Feb 02 05:52:55 <evands> yeah, that doesn't work
Feb 02 05:52:58 <evands> that's the one I meant
Feb 02 05:53:08 <evands> ken ferry looked at the source, as did I, and it looks fine
Feb 02 05:53:11 <evands> but the result is nonfunctional
Feb 02 05:53:22 <Mac-arena> What if you create it rw, disable r or w, then enable it later as needed?
Feb 02 05:53:30 <evands> I tried that
Feb 02 05:53:36 <evands> CFSocketDisableCallBacks did poorly, too
Feb 02 05:53:47 <evands> I wish now I'd kept more detailed notes on exactly what it did wrong
Feb 02 05:53:50 <evands> because this sounds utterly ridiculous
Feb 02 05:53:50 <hal2k> you could just add an if(bla) return; to the callback at the top
Feb 02 05:54:05 <Catfish_Man> what about creating it rw and just not doing the one you don't want to do? (/me shows off his total lack of sockets knowledge)
Feb 02 05:54:35 <evands> Catfish_Man: let's say you know you're wanting to look for a read... and later you'll want to look for a write, which may become ready before you request it
Feb 02 05:54:50 <evands> the callback gets triggerred as soon as the write is possible, instead of when you want it.. and it won't later be triggered again
Feb 02 05:54:58 <Catfish_Man> ok
Feb 02 05:54:59 <hal2k> ah ok
Feb 02 05:55:00 <evands> though i *suppose* on add you could also do a poll() and see if it's immediately available
Feb 02 05:55:10 <evands> feels like piling hack on top of hack
Feb 02 05:55:15 <evands> which is kinda what's going on here at this point anyways
Feb 02 05:55:18 <Catfish_Man> mmmm hacks
Feb 02 05:55:19 <hal2k> poll wasn't implemented in Mac OS X 10.0, dunno if they fixed that
Feb 02 05:55:28 <evands> it's implemented in 10.4 at least
Feb 02 05:55:32 <hal2k> ok
Feb 02 05:55:41 <evands> i believe it was added in 10.3
Feb 02 05:55:48 <evands> i'm fairly sure it wasn't in 10.2
Feb 02 05:56:01 <Mac-arena> Can't do select or kevent? poll is user-space only and wraps select
Feb 02 05:56:05 * durin42 returns
Feb 02 05:56:09 <Mac-arena> (since Pantar)
Feb 02 05:56:16 <Catfish_Man> kevent was buggy in 10.3 iirc
Feb 02 05:56:23 <Mac-arena> So select, then.
Feb 02 05:56:35 <durin42> do we need more screenies before I hit the hay?
Feb 02 05:56:43 <Catfish_Man> btw, it turns out that there *is* a working demo instance of sparkweb
Feb 02 05:56:50 <Catfish_Man> you just have to register with a fat client first
Feb 02 05:56:57 <evands> Mac-arena: we're not doing any of those 3 in HEAD.. i just added poll() because elliott and i were hypothesizing that the AIM file transfer problem came about because we were invalidating a socket which was currently ready-and-waiting
Feb 02 05:57:07 <evands> the *only* place I've seen the current implementation have a problem is with AIM file transfer
Feb 02 05:57:17 <evands> in which a single fd has a write.. then adds a read
Feb 02 05:57:35 <evands> if the transfer fails, it fails when the read callback is called with 0 bytes to be read()
Feb 02 05:57:40 <evands> EOF, that is
Feb 02 05:57:52 <evands> and it's called basically immediately
Feb 02 06:00:13 <evands> I deleted the AIM file transfer / direct connect thing from the changelog's major changes
Feb 02 06:00:19 <Catfish_Man> k
Feb 02 06:00:23 <evands> this is too frustrating to promise people that it works now
Feb 02 06:00:26 <evands> they'll find it works better
Feb 02 06:00:26 <The_Tick> authentication works now
Feb 02 06:00:32 <evands> and when it works perfectly, we'll make a big deal out of that
Feb 02 06:00:35 <proton> *sigh* this is just too easy in general: SELECT COUNT(status) AS count, status, milestone FROM ticket GROUP BY milestone, status;
Feb 02 06:00:38 <Catfish_Man> evands: makes sense to me
Feb 02 06:00:42 <evands> i find it really frustrating that our underlying library does it right
Feb 02 06:00:51 <evands> and we can't find how to make use of that
Feb 02 06:00:54 <proton> from that it should be trivial to make the report very quickly :(
Feb 02 06:00:58 <Catfish_Man> evands: can we bypass CFSocket and just use BSD sockets?
Feb 02 06:01:11 <evands> I think we want to integrate this into the CFRunLoop / NSRunLoop
Feb 02 06:01:13 <hal2k> proton: go ahead :)
Feb 02 06:01:22 <evands> but I'm not averse to any other implementation
Feb 02 06:01:27 <hal2k> Catfish_Man: you'd need a separate thread for that
Feb 02 06:01:40 <proton> takes 115ms to run that query on my powerbook (and it's not even using any indexes because trac doesn't have any good ones be default)
Feb 02 06:02:08 <hal2k> proton: you still need to apply some template
Feb 02 06:02:09 <Mac-arena> BBIAH - CSI
Feb 02 06:02:22 <evands> Mac-arena: Want to quest through adium and corefoundation and figure out how to fix all our AIM file transfer woes? :-)
Feb 02 06:02:25 <proton> hal2k: like I said, I have no idea of the internals of trac
Feb 02 06:02:31 <The_Tick> evands: 40-50 simulatneous connections
Feb 02 06:02:35 <The_Tick> on that box
Feb 02 06:02:37 <proton> just that the query is trivial and it shouldn't take a lot of CPU to handle the rest of it
Feb 02 06:02:38 <Mac-arena> evands: I'd love to, but I have no idea :)
Feb 02 06:02:39 <hal2k> evands: I guess NSStream doesn't help?
Feb 02 06:02:59 <The_Tick> is the changelog done guys?
Feb 02 06:03:00 <Mac-arena> I'll reopen the changelog later - can't be online or channel 2's reception goes to crap
Feb 02 06:03:11 <evands> hal2k: I don't know anything about NSStream.
Feb 02 06:03:11 <The_Tick> Catfish_Man: can you work on an rc2?
Feb 02 06:03:14 <Mac-arena> (I haven't looked)
Feb 02 06:03:24 <-- Mac-arena has quit ("[image of Hillary Clinton's sour face]")
Feb 02 06:03:26 <hal2k> evands: I'd guess it's just a wrapper around CFStream
Feb 02 06:03:39 <evands> hal2k: I don't know anything about CFStream.
Feb 02 06:04:00 <evands> um, ok, Mac-arena left with the changelog
Feb 02 06:04:21 <durin42> evands: 00:03 < Mac-arena> I'll reopen the changelog later - can't be online or channel 2's reception goes to crap
Feb 02 06:04:33 <evands> *nod*
Feb 02 06:04:38 <evands> I want to finish this bad boy up
Feb 02 06:04:39 <durin42> how close are we?
Feb 02 06:04:48 <evands> anyone else have an open connection on which they can host SEE?
Feb 02 06:04:55 <evands> mine's all forwarded but doesn't seem to want to work
Feb 02 06:05:05 <durin42> evands: tell me the addy, I'll try to connect
Feb 02 06:05:12 <Catfish_Man> evands: I'll check if DevG5 can host
Feb 02 06:05:36 <proton> hal2k: thing is that for some silly reason trac seems to get all the details about the tickets from the database instead of using the database aggregate functions;
Feb 02 06:05:41 <evands> see://24.98.211.70
Feb 02 06:05:55 <durin42> could not contact.
Feb 02 06:05:56 <durin42> Darn.
Feb 02 06:06:00 <evands> durin42: I don't know. Does anyone know if the beta stuff was merged in?
Feb 02 06:06:09 <Catfish_Man> evands: I got some of it
Feb 02 06:06:10 <hal2k> proton: yeah. in < 0.10.3, they even parsed the ticket descriptions and formatted them, just to throw that info away
Feb 02 06:06:43 <proton> it takes my test database on my powerbook about 50ms longer just to run the query for what they're doing
Feb 02 06:07:01 <proton> anywhere from 50-100ms longer
Feb 02 06:07:06 <cbarrett> I'm inside Mozilla's firewall on wireless
Feb 02 06:07:09 <cbarrett> so probably not me
Feb 02 06:07:59 <durin42> I'm on an edu network, so I'm out
Feb 02 06:08:21 <durin42> evands: honestly, the b1 changelog probably represents the changes from .89x well
Feb 02 06:08:38 <proton> i used to be able to do it, but gaby went nuts and firewalled all our machines :(
Feb 02 06:08:40 <bgannin> the changelog is looking pretty good at this point
Feb 02 06:08:41 <evands> yeah, i don't want to spend much more time on it
Feb 02 06:08:57 <evands> that's good enough for me. if we miss a change or 20, well, that's not that big a deal at this point :)
Feb 02 06:08:58 <hal2k> proton: I guess you should really dive into trac. that sounds like a good improvemnt
Feb 02 06:09:03 <bgannin> i'm out for some WoW myself :)
Feb 02 06:09:07 <bgannin> later all
Feb 02 06:09:14 <-- bgannin has quit ()
Feb 02 06:09:17 <durin42> evands: is the changelog the last thing?
Feb 02 06:09:29 <evands> screen shots... which are hopefully coming together?
Feb 02 06:09:36 <Catfish_Man> want me to start an rc2 build?
Feb 02 06:09:43 <evands> let's get the help system in
Feb 02 06:09:46 <Catfish_Man> sure
Feb 02 06:09:48 <evands> eric is sending it to me right now
Feb 02 06:09:50 <durin42> evands: did you see what's on durin42.com?
Feb 02 06:09:59 <Catfish_Man> I'd love to get this socket madness fixed, but I am definitely not qualified to do it
Feb 02 06:10:00 <evands> i couldn't get to it before - linky?
Feb 02 06:10:03 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/
Feb 02 06:10:05 <evands> Catfish_Man: nor am i
Feb 02 06:10:20 <durin42> evidently dreamhost doesn't like intercaps in folder names for directory indexes
Feb 02 06:10:25 <durin42> will have to look into that later
Feb 02 06:10:27 <hal2k> durin42: those tiffs should be converted to png btw
Feb 02 06:10:31 <durin42> sorry about the tiffs in there
Feb 02 06:10:34 <durin42> yeah, I know
Feb 02 06:10:38 <durin42> I just noticed those
Feb 02 06:11:06 <durin42> hm, the uncensored one needs updated
Feb 02 06:11:10 <proton> hal2k: i'd say it should be a lot faster in the python if I understood enough to fix it :)
Feb 02 06:11:29 <evands> some good shots, augie, cool
Feb 02 06:11:31 <proton> you're returning 116 rows to python instead of 6133 :)
Feb 02 06:12:15 <evands> i'd do a couple with some default layout/theme combos...
Feb 02 06:12:21 <durin42> oh, good call
Feb 02 06:12:34 <evands> um, could someone with another pair of eyes look at the 3 layouts and themes were shipping
Feb 02 06:12:37 <The_Tick> screenshots need context
Feb 02 06:12:54 <The_Tick> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/conversation_window.tiff <- good
Feb 02 06:13:01 <The_Tick> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/conversation_smoothOperator.png <- bad
Feb 02 06:13:02 <Catfish_Man> evands: what about them in particular?
Feb 02 06:13:03 <evands> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/buddy_list_typing.tiff is good
Feb 02 06:13:36 <durin42> updates are flying up
Feb 02 06:13:44 <The_Tick> I'm unfortunately probably going to be turning in before this all happens
Feb 02 06:13:46 <The_Tick> *sigh*
Feb 02 06:13:51 <durin42> The_Tick: bad, eh?
Feb 02 06:13:58 <The_Tick> have to get up at 5
Feb 02 06:14:01 <evands> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/recusive_menu.png is a cool one to have, but maybe you could group some of your bottom ones to get the bottom of that menu on screen
Feb 02 06:14:10 <The_Tick> durin42: lack of context around it
Feb 02 06:14:18 <The_Tick> no shadow, no background
Feb 02 06:14:25 <durin42> ah
Feb 02 06:14:27 <durin42> ok
Feb 02 06:14:34 <The_Tick> http://saltatory.com/familyabout.html
Feb 02 06:14:39 <The_Tick> something more like that
Feb 02 06:14:46 <The_Tick> http://sugoisoft.com/jisho/
Feb 02 06:14:49 <The_Tick> etc etc
Feb 02 06:15:07 <durin42> evands: lemme sort my aways and reshoot that one
Feb 02 06:15:11 <evands> sweet
Feb 02 06:16:12 <hal2k> I usually use an empty TextEdit window for the background
Feb 02 06:17:25 * durin42 cleans up his computer in yet another way
Feb 02 06:17:30 <durin42> release day has been good for me in that respect
Feb 02 06:17:49 --> djbsquared (n=jordanwe@adium/djbsquared) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 06:20:35 <evands> the existing shots are a good reference -- Adam did a great job on those
Feb 02 06:20:42 <durin42> evands: http://durin42.com.nyud.net:8080/rnd/adium/recusive_menu.png
Feb 02 06:20:45 <durin42> er, not that link.
Feb 02 06:20:55 * durin42 swears at bookmarklet.
Feb 02 06:20:56 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/recusive_menu.png
Feb 02 06:21:00 <djbsquared> alright... all caught up on that transcript
Feb 02 06:21:52 <djbsquared> anything still need to be done i have the ability to do ?
Feb 02 06:23:32 <durin42> djbsquared: I think we need some screenshots yet
Feb 02 06:23:44 <djbsquared> anything imparticular?
Feb 02 06:23:55 <durin42> not sure yet
Feb 02 06:24:09 <cbarrett> durin42: Can you take that same screenshot, but from the status menu?
Feb 02 06:24:14 <cbarrett> so the menus go the right way...
Feb 02 06:24:24 <Catfish_Man> hey sweet, my macbook can run halo ok
Feb 02 06:24:31 <durin42> cbarrett: oh, hm
Feb 02 06:24:33 <durin42> I suppose so
Feb 02 06:24:38 <durin42> I'll get another from there
Feb 02 06:24:42 <durin42> and we can choose or use both
Feb 02 06:24:57 <evands> we need some nice screenshots in the style of the ones on adiumx.com at present
Feb 02 06:25:04 <evands> using default settings
Feb 02 06:25:06 <djbsquared> well thats a good display of the EMD
Feb 02 06:25:13 <djbsquared> if we want such a shot
Feb 02 06:25:14 <Catfish_Man> yes, the ones on the site now are very good
Feb 02 06:25:31 <evands> we've got a couple of great shots illustrating Things That Look Unique
Feb 02 06:25:42 <evands> I've done one in group bubbles, durin42 did one with a fully transparent list
Feb 02 06:25:53 <evands> i don't think i've seen any good shots with a standard contact list
Feb 02 06:26:06 <djbsquared> im transparent/fully aliased names
Feb 02 06:26:07 <evands> which in start contrast to adium 0.89.1 is actually an attractive look for adium :)
Feb 02 06:27:09 <cbarrett> I can take 'em.
Feb 02 06:27:11 <durin42> alright, updated: http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/recusive_menu_status.png
Feb 02 06:27:28 <The_Tick> evands: to #adium-devl please :)
Feb 02 06:27:30 <cbarrett> I'll do it tonight.
Feb 02 06:27:40 --> ksuther (n=kent@cpe-72-226-232-173.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 06:29:02 <durin42> The_Tick evands: do we want setup assistant shots?
Feb 02 06:29:06 <evands> durin42: nice.
Feb 02 06:29:13 <The_Tick> durin42: sure
Feb 02 06:29:20 <evands> i dunno, you just see it the once
Feb 02 06:29:25 <evands> but on the other hand, it's quite pretty
Feb 02 06:29:39 <evands> and it's got some good text
Feb 02 06:30:05 <evands> I'd vote no... let's not flood with screen shots; it's attractiveness can be a nice surprise on first launch :)
Feb 02 06:30:20 <cbarrett> How about we duplicate the screenshots on the main page exactly?
Feb 02 06:30:21 <durin42> alrighty
Feb 02 06:30:23 <proton> too many screenshots == badness
Feb 02 06:30:24 <cbarrett> Just in 1.0?
Feb 02 06:30:34 <cbarrett> 'cause those are fricken' fine set of screenies.
Feb 02 06:32:02 <evands> cbarrett: That sounds pretty good to me
Feb 02 06:32:10 <evands> at least a 1:1 match on idea
Feb 02 06:32:47 <durin42> cbarrett: say something in AIM
Feb 02 06:33:28 <evands> Eric is trying to make us not have to support 10.3 :P
Feb 02 06:33:55 <durin42> evands: chat w/ me in AIM for a sec for screenshotness plz?
Feb 02 06:34:44 <durin42> evands: nm, random victim IMed me.
Feb 02 06:34:50 <edr1084> evands: I am?
Feb 02 06:34:51 <evands> haha
Feb 02 06:34:55 <evands> :)
Feb 02 06:34:56 <evands> yea
Feb 02 06:35:02 <evands> you sent me the trunk plist
Feb 02 06:35:06 <evands> and i almost committed it to adium-1.0
Feb 02 06:35:12 <evands> would have been "amusing"
Feb 02 06:35:15 <evands> <key>LSMinimumSystemVersion</key>
Feb 02 06:35:15 <edr1084> edr1084: I made the help index tiger compata..... oh.
Feb 02 06:35:15 <evands> <string>10.4.0</string>
Feb 02 06:35:15 <evands>
Feb 02 06:35:26 <edr1084> err panther that is
Feb 02 06:35:37 <edr1084> heh, oops
Feb 02 06:35:54 <edr1084> that one was just for jmpp... too bad he isn't in here ;)
Feb 02 06:36:01 <proton> heh
Feb 02 06:36:25 <durin42> evands: http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/talking_defaultSettings.png
Feb 02 06:36:44 <durin42> I should probably reshoot without the crufty desktop icons
Feb 02 06:36:55 <evands> and drop your screen resolution down
Feb 02 06:37:04 <evands> to 800x600 if you can, or 1024x768
Feb 02 06:37:08 <durin42> kk
Feb 02 06:37:54 <durin42> heh, yeah, I do have a gihuge display
Feb 02 06:38:07 <durin42> omg huge text
Feb 02 06:38:28 <The_Tick> evands: let's drop 10.3 now
Feb 02 06:38:31 <evands> The_Tick: No.
Feb 02 06:38:35 <The_Tick> wait
Feb 02 06:38:38 <The_Tick> hear me out :)
Feb 02 06:38:43 <evands> not listening :)
Feb 02 06:38:43 <The_Tick> no explicit support
Feb 02 06:38:48 <The_Tick> we don't list it on the site
Feb 02 06:38:50 <The_Tick> or macupdate
Feb 02 06:38:52 * evands has his fingers in his ears
Feb 02 06:38:54 <The_Tick> or vt or anything
Feb 02 06:38:55 * evands is running in circles
Feb 02 06:38:58 <The_Tick> but it'll still run on it
Feb 02 06:39:14 <evands> Eh. There's no reason to do that... we run just fine on 10.3
Feb 02 06:39:17 <evands> it's not hurting us in any way
Feb 02 06:39:27 <The_Tick> but 10.3 is icky!
Feb 02 06:39:30 <The_Tick> it smells like old socks
Feb 02 06:39:35 <The_Tick> :P
Feb 02 06:39:51 <evands> ok, i want to start doing screenshots, but it's probably a better allocation for me to help eric with getting the help system in and hooked up
Feb 02 06:39:54 <The_Tick> evands: at least now I can tell elliot I tried :P
Feb 02 06:40:07 <evands> the site doesn't need to all change at once
Feb 02 06:40:09 <evands> so let's start doing it
Feb 02 06:40:12 <evands> pick a screen shot on the current page
Feb 02 06:40:21 <The_Tick> give me 12 screenshots
Feb 02 06:40:27 <evands> and replace it with a similar one in 1.0... let's do 'em one by one
Feb 02 06:40:46 <The_Tick> I'm going to see if I can spiff up the page a very little bit
Feb 02 06:41:18 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/talking_defaultSettings1.png
Feb 02 06:41:20 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/talking_defaultSettings2.png
Feb 02 06:41:22 <durin42> check those
Feb 02 06:41:55 <djbsquared> look good
Feb 02 06:42:07 <durin42> one with typing and one without
Feb 02 06:43:05 <evands> let's use http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/talking_defaultSettings2.png for the first image
Feb 02 06:43:22 <evands> ...
Feb 02 06:43:26 <durin42> I can't look at any of the shots on the existing screenshot page anymore
Feb 02 06:43:27 <durin42> wtf
Feb 02 06:43:27 <evands> i see someone has decided to play with the php :P
Feb 02 06:43:37 <durin42> less curly braces foo!
Feb 02 06:43:44 <evands> FOR GREAT JUSTICE NO MORE BRACES
Feb 02 06:43:55 <evands> Hm, haven't said that in 10 years or so
Feb 02 06:44:15 <durin42> evands: do you like how I got the canceled show thing from darkwing to tooltip right next to firefly in the status menu stuff?
Feb 02 06:44:19 <djbsquared> evands: painful orthodontia in your history?
Feb 02 06:44:31 <evands> durin42: I noticed :)
Feb 02 06:44:37 <evands> djbsquared: just a bit :-)
Feb 02 06:44:44 <durin42> and I also went and found the cow desktop in honor of Adam
Feb 02 06:44:51 <djbsquared> evands: bar mitzvah pics or senior pics? :P
Feb 02 06:45:25 <evands> bar mitzvah, with giant glasses, too
Feb 02 06:45:38 <djbsquared> of course, it seems like its always that way
Feb 02 06:45:57 <evands> it's inevitable
Feb 02 06:46:15 <djbsquared> every generation has its own quirk for bar mitzvah pics
Feb 02 06:46:19 <djbsquared> ours is braces
Feb 02 06:48:33 --> jmpp (n=jmpp@opendarwin/developer/jmpp) has joined #Adium-mtg
Feb 02 06:48:58 <jmpp> party's over?
Feb 02 06:49:26 <evands> nah still going
Feb 02 06:49:30 <evands> just quiet as everyone works on stuff
Feb 02 06:49:44 <durin42> it feels like I'm being strangled every time I drop to 800x600 for a shot
Feb 02 06:49:51 <jmpp> evands!
Feb 02 06:49:55 <evands> at least xcode didn't just crash on you
Feb 02 06:49:58 <evands> you still have that.
Feb 02 06:50:01 <jmpp> now that's a strange sight on irc!
Feb 02 06:50:06 <durin42> evands: I break it often
Feb 02 06:50:16 <durin42> look at the crap I pulled to make perian build
Feb 02 06:50:19 <evands> jmpp: heya :)
Feb 02 06:50:43 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/log_viewer.png
Feb 02 06:50:46 <djbsquared> do we only want standard looking shots?
Feb 02 06:50:47 <jmpp> evands: you totally ignored my custom emoticons bug :(
Feb 02 06:50:50 <durin42> oh, damn
Feb 02 06:50:52 * jmpp cries!
Feb 02 06:50:53 <durin42> needs censoring
Feb 02 06:51:41 <evands> jmpp: I didn't ignore it. I just don't have anything I can do about it in the 1.0 timeframe
Feb 02 06:51:47 <evands> because it's nontrivial and I'm not making nontrivial changes
Feb 02 06:51:57 <durin42> *retakes that one
Feb 02 06:52:00 <jmpp> evands: i'm just being a nuisance ;)
Feb 02 06:52:01 <evands> I'll look at it for 1.0.1 or so if you ask really nicely and catch me at a quiet moment
Feb 02 06:52:35 <jmpp> evands: is breakfast in bed a good approach...?
Feb 02 06:53:34 <djbsquared> jmpp: try a microbrew 6 pack ;)
Feb 02 06:53:44 <evands> jmpp: Scotch is a better approach
Feb 02 06:53:53 <edr1084> jmpp: !?!?!? who let him in here!
Feb 02 06:53:58 * jmpp just had a glass of mint liquor :)
Feb 02 06:53:59 <edr1084> ;)
Feb 02 06:54:06 <jmpp> edr1084: da panta!!
Feb 02 06:54:16 <djbsquared> evands: evands any particular maly or vintage?
Feb 02 06:54:33 <jmpp> McAllister!
Feb 02 06:54:36 <jmpp> 18 years!
Feb 02 06:54:41 <jmpp> ;)
Feb 02 06:54:47 <evands> I love me some Glenlivet 18...
Feb 02 06:54:59 <djbsquared> haha, glenlivet was going to be my guess too
Feb 02 06:55:03 <jmpp> I once had a bottle of blue level in my hands...
Feb 02 06:55:06 <evands> McAllister barrel strength is *killer*
Feb 02 06:55:10 <jmpp> closed thoug :(
Feb 02 06:56:23 <jmpp> evands: I'll ticket the issue in the comming days with the appropriate information. There are also some other, correctly named emoticons, that are failing to show, but this time correctly displaying the missing image question mark
Feb 02 06:57:23 <jmpp> crap!
Feb 02 06:57:26 <jmpp> something deleted them!
Feb 02 06:57:42 <jmpp> does restarting adium clean its cache at ~/Library/Caches/?
Feb 02 06:57:57 <-- Wengero has quit ()
Feb 02 06:58:01 <durin42> jmpp: no
Feb 02 06:58:16 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/log_viewer.png <-- The_Tick, evands, good?
Feb 02 06:58:19 <jmpp> then a ghost did :)
Feb 02 06:59:23 <djbsquared> durin42: did we get prefs done already?
Feb 02 06:59:30 <evands> jmpp: part of it - if it starts with TEMP it'll be deleted on quit
Feb 02 06:59:36 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/generalPrefs.png
Feb 02 06:59:39 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/messagePrefs.png
Feb 02 06:59:45 <durin42> we've got those two
Feb 02 06:59:55 <djbsquared> do we want others?
Feb 02 06:59:57 <durin42> but they need redone
Feb 02 07:00:00 <durin42> *redoes*
Feb 02 07:00:13 <djbsquared> because i can grab any of the prefs winders
Feb 02 07:00:58 <jmpp> evands: yeap, precisely so, a custom emoticon that was failing to display. It was correctly named with respect to file extension, so adium did show the question mark when failing to load it, unlike the other case I reported to you
Feb 02 07:01:25 <evands> durin42: logs looks good to me.. could even rock a content search at the same time, though it'd need to be something that will show a couple logs there
Feb 02 07:01:35 <jmpp> evands: so I was keeping it around to show it to you... but it was in caches and it was nmed temp-etc... ;)
Feb 02 07:01:38 <jmpp> so, caput!
Feb 02 07:01:41 <djbsquared> evands: raccoon porn?
Feb 02 07:01:47 <evands> jmpp: cool
Feb 02 07:01:55 <durin42> djbsquared: nah
Feb 02 07:02:04 * jmpp leaves people to work
Feb 02 07:02:08 <djbsquared> durin42: that was the test search for the SQL Logger
Feb 02 07:02:15 <djbsquared> for statisitics
Feb 02 07:02:18 <durin42> which was much smaller in target market
Feb 02 07:02:32 <djbsquared> of course
Feb 02 07:02:50 <djbsquared> hell, we had a much smaller market in general
Feb 02 07:03:22 <durin42> someone else do a search
Feb 02 07:03:27 <durin42> censoring is a pain in the ass for me
Feb 02 07:03:39 <durin42> The_Tick: do you have enough shots or do we want more?
Feb 02 07:04:09 <The_Tick> durin42: haven't even looked
Feb 02 07:04:12 <The_Tick> busy messing with lightbox
Feb 02 07:04:25 <djbsquared> durin42: i can get the log viewer with content search
Feb 02 07:04:29 <durin42> djbsquared: do it
Feb 02 07:05:19 <durin42> I should censor better I guess
Feb 02 07:05:20 --> Mac-arena (n=macrulez@growl/Mac-arena) has joined #adium-mtg
Feb 02 07:05:25 <durin42> I can still read them
Feb 02 07:05:49 <Mac-arena> Updated SEE URL: see://71.118.236.122/
Feb 02 07:06:10 <durin42> djbsquared: do one of the log viewer too
Feb 02 07:06:14 <durin42> my censoring is too weak I deem
Feb 02 07:06:32 <djbsquared> http://jzw.gotdns.org/Log_Viewer.png
Feb 02 07:06:37 <Mac-arena> durin42: If you want, I can set you up with video-only versions of some of the screencasts, for you to grab 800x600 frames from.
Feb 02 07:06:46 <Mac-arena> Animation codec++
Feb 02 07:06:57 <durin42> meh, I think we're mostly set by now
Feb 02 07:07:01 <djbsquared> i read through that search, that pic should be clean
Feb 02 07:07:08 <durin42> djbsquared: need more context on the window
Feb 02 07:07:18 <djbsquared> ok, hold
Feb 02 07:07:34 <djbsquared> let me switch res
Feb 02 07:07:34 <Mac-arena> Well, when I get ep 3 done - which shouldn't be much longer - I'll put all four eps on Revver and then you can watch them and see if there are any frames you want grabbed.
Feb 02 07:07:45 * Mac-arena fires FCE back up
Feb 02 07:08:02 <durin42> nah, I'm out
Feb 02 07:08:05 <durin42> I need sleep
Feb 02 07:08:10 <durin42> I have classes tomorrow
Feb 02 07:08:14 <djbsquared> oy, this is so ugly
Feb 02 07:08:15 <durin42> and a thesis deadline I've barely touched
Feb 02 07:08:34 <Mac-arena> durin42: 'Night.
Feb 02 07:09:09 <durin42> http://durin42.com/rnd/adium/ has up-to-date versions of all my shots
Feb 02 07:09:16 <-- ksuther (n=kent@cpe-72-226-232-173.rochester.res.rr.com) has left #adium-mtg
Feb 02 07:09:36 <djbsquared> evands, The_Tick: http://jzw.gotdns.org/Log_Viewer.png
Feb 02 07:09:54 <evands> durin42: thanks
Feb 02 07:09:57 <evands> durin42: night :)
Feb 02 07:10:25 <Mac-arena> The advantage of frame-grabbing from the screencasts is that it'll have the cow background.
Feb 02 07:10:40 <Mac-arena> djbsquared: What's this tunnel icon in your status bar?
Feb 02 07:10:50 <djbsquared> hmm?
Feb 02 07:10:55 <durin42> Mac-arena: some of my shots have those too
Feb 02 07:11:06 <Mac-arena> Maybe I mean durin42, then
Feb 02 07:11:12 <durin42> Mac-arena: that's tunnelblick
Feb 02 07:11:23 <durin42> for openvpn
Feb 02 07:11:50 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: if you link me the cow I can put it on, I just dont know if youll be able to see my contact list...
Feb 02 07:12:00 <Mac-arena> Is it me, or do open-source projects just come up with awful names?
Feb 02 07:12:03 <djbsquared> since all my variations are based on dark bkground
Feb 02 07:13:22 <cbarrett> Mac-arena: Yes.
Feb 02 07:13:28 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: To what question?
Feb 02 07:14:01 <cbarrett> The most recently asked one.
Feb 02 07:14:16 <Mac-arena> I see.
Feb 02 07:14:27 <proton> Mac-arena: yeah, like "adium"
Feb 02 07:14:30 <proton> i mean wtf is an adium?
Feb 02 07:14:32 <proton> :)
Feb 02 07:14:40 <evands> proton: if you have to ask, it's right behind you
Feb 02 07:14:41 <Mac-arena> proton: I agree. Nobody can decide how to pronounce it.
Feb 02 07:14:47 <cbarrett> Yeah.
Feb 02 07:14:48 <Mac-arena> Most of us say "ay-dee-um", but evands is a rebel.
Feb 02 07:14:56 <Catfish_Man> watching people try to pronounce it at wwdc was hilarious
Feb 02 07:14:59 <evands> just how i roll
Feb 02 07:15:13 <cbarrett> People here seem to get it right.
Feb 02 07:15:22 <Mac-arena> Here = IRC. Pronunciation isn't a problem here.
Feb 02 07:15:27 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: http://jzw.gotdns.org/Log_Content.png
Feb 02 07:15:28 <cbarrett> here = mozilla.
Feb 02 07:15:40 <Mac-arena> Mo' zilla! As opposed to less zilla.
Feb 02 07:15:41 <cbarrett> Think just the WWDCers, especially those from .au, are stupid.
Feb 02 07:15:42 <cbarrett> ;)
Feb 02 07:15:51 <cbarrett> Mac-arena: Mozilla like Mosaic Zilla.
Feb 02 07:15:58 <cbarrett> Mosaic Godzilla.
Feb 02 07:16:03 <evands> 739 kb
Feb 02 07:16:08 <Catfish_Man> ahh, trackpad halo... that brought back memories :)
Feb 02 07:16:10 <proton> i go with the evands rebel brigade
Feb 02 07:16:18 <cbarrett> should ban you all.
Feb 02 07:16:29 <Mac-arena> Anybody feel like writing an app that will allow us to quickly draw "CENSORED" rectangles over all these screen names?
Feb 02 07:16:33 <evands> with a nonworking direct im in the background
Feb 02 07:16:53 * evands wanders around looking like he's on the verge of jumping on a couch :)
Feb 02 07:16:58 <djbsquared> evands: mine has working direct IM in the background
Feb 02 07:17:02 <Catfish_Man> yeah, showing off soon-to-be-fixed bustage is none so good
Feb 02 07:17:06 <djbsquared> you only see the end of it though
Feb 02 07:17:16 <cbarrett> I will just replicate the cow screen shots on a fresh profile.
Feb 02 07:17:24 <cbarrett> later on tonight.
Feb 02 07:17:30 <cbarrett> once I get home
Feb 02 07:17:30 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man: Or recently-fixed bustage, like the two "show the name in the Dock icon" actions we had on the messageReceivedBackground event in the default preset.
Feb 02 07:17:41 <Catfish_Man> oops
Feb 02 07:17:42 <djbsquared> evands: http://jzw.gotdns.org/directim.png :)
Feb 02 07:17:48 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: I suggested to durin42 that he take frame-grabs from an Animation no-audio copy of my screencasts.
Feb 02 07:17:58 <cbarrett> ALL screenshots should be using the defaults.
Feb 02 07:18:02 <cbarrett> except one or two.
Feb 02 07:18:04 <evands> djbsquared: ....
Feb 02 07:18:14 <evands> cbarrett: yeah
Feb 02 07:18:16 <djbsquared> evands: the picture is up above
Feb 02 07:18:17 <Catfish_Man> djbsquared: picsplz
Feb 02 07:18:23 <evands> djbsquared: ah
Feb 02 07:18:25 <Catfish_Man> (i.e. DIM == pics)
Feb 02 07:18:37 <djbsquared> evands: if you just drag the pic into the text entry area
Feb 02 07:18:47 * cbarrett listens to It's The End Of The World As We Know It.
Feb 02 07:18:54 <Mac-arena> djbsquared: That's a nifty message view style, although man those balloons are borken.
Feb 02 07:18:55 <djbsquared> it actually gets put in your message window before it establishes the DIM
Feb 02 07:19:03 <cbarrett> 10 @ 10 is doing 1987 today.
Feb 02 07:19:13 <cbarrett> (10 songs at 10am and 10pm from a particular year)
Feb 02 07:19:15 <durin42> a good year
Feb 02 07:19:15 <evands> djbsquared: yeah, though it's actually not supposed to
Feb 02 07:19:17 <durin42> I'm a fan of that year
Feb 02 07:19:20 <evands> and i thought i fixed that already
Feb 02 07:19:29 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: patr1ck just turned me on to it, i was still using SO1.0b2, i did this for transparency
Feb 02 07:19:34 <djbsquared> evands: this is on b24
Feb 02 07:19:37 <evands> *shrug*
Feb 02 07:19:40 <evands> 1987, eh?
Feb 02 07:19:42 <djbsquared> i havent had an rc show up in sparkle, so i havent grabbed
Feb 02 07:19:44 <cbarrett> Yup.
Feb 02 07:19:48 <evands> djbsquared: really?
Feb 02 07:19:53 <Mac-arena> I'm not running Adium right now.
Feb 02 07:19:55 <evands> djbsquared: tell it to check for updates please?
Feb 02 07:19:56 <djbsquared> yea, even with a manual check
Feb 02 07:20:10 * evands looks at Catfish_Man
Feb 02 07:20:15 <cbarrett> saying this for me too
Feb 02 07:20:17 * Catfish_Man looks at evands
Feb 02 07:20:24 * evands looks at the ceiling
Feb 02 07:20:27 <djbsquared> 1.0b24 is the newest version
Feb 02 07:20:30 * evands looks at sparkly things in the ceiling
Feb 02 07:20:37 <Mac-arena> For me, it's saying "You aren't even running Adium right now. How DID you pull that off?"
Feb 02 07:20:49 * cbarrett looks at the spikes about to fall on Catfish_Man's head
Feb 02 07:20:59 <Mac-arena> Spikes, or ice shards?
Feb 02 07:21:06 * Mac-arena has flashbacks to WC2's Blizzard spell
Feb 02 07:21:16 <Catfish_Man> sigh, goddammit, it is on the appcast isn't it
Feb 02 07:21:20 * Catfish_Man leaps onto the spikes
Feb 02 07:21:20 <evands> http://www.adiumx.com/sparkle/appcast.xml
Feb 02 07:21:22 <Mac-arena> (which has to be the most subtle company-name-hidden-in-the-product Easter egg ever)
Feb 02 07:21:26 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: so mostly, im using the message style because it looks good transparent on dark and light backgrounds, and its simple
Feb 02 07:21:31 * evands hopes that 1.0 > 1.0b24
Feb 02 07:21:40 <evands> that's not a problem
Feb 02 07:21:44 <evands> we'll do an rc in a moment
Feb 02 07:21:46 <evands> that's 1.0b25
Feb 02 07:21:48 <evands> forget the rc convention
Feb 02 07:21:57 <Mac-arena> Heh, I didn't even realize that that was transparent.
Feb 02 07:22:01 <Catfish_Man> evands: lemme get my test appcast up to confirm that...
Feb 02 07:22:04 <Mac-arena> I just thought it had a dark green background.
Feb 02 07:22:05 <evands> 1.0b24 doesn't have your fixes in, does it?
Feb 02 07:22:18 <Catfish_Man> hm... doesn't it?
Feb 02 07:22:22 <Catfish_Man> I thought that was like last week
Feb 02 07:22:35 <cbarrett> FWIW this is one reason linux people use odd numbered branches for development.
Feb 02 07:22:35 <Mac-arena> "1.0b25: And you thought b24 was old!"
Feb 02 07:22:40 <Catfish_Man> anyway, I will find out momentarily
Feb 02 07:22:46 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: What is?
Feb 02 07:22:50 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: because they can't get update logic right either?
Feb 02 07:22:56 <cbarrett> 1.0 > 1.0b24 ???
Feb 02 07:23:07 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: yea, im so used to dark backgrounds, and i dont particularly want to get a borderless transparent list that looks nice on light
Feb 02 07:23:18 <edr1084> evands: does b25 include the help stuff? or are we still working on that?
Feb 02 07:23:29 <cbarrett> Catfish_Man: think about who uses version numbers in an automated way for linux software.
Feb 02 07:23:34 <cbarrett> Linux Distros.
Feb 02 07:23:41 <evands> edr1084: i'm working on it right now
Feb 02 07:23:44 <cbarrett> now think about how shitty package management on Linux is.
Feb 02 07:23:52 <cbarrett> Now thing about how shitty that was many years ago.
Feb 02 07:23:55 <Mac-arena> Aha. So EVIL_BETA_AVOID_AVOID = version_number & 1; ? :)
Feb 02 07:23:59 <edr1084> evands: awesomeness
Feb 02 07:24:06 <cbarrett> Also, it's what the kernel does.
Feb 02 07:24:15 <cbarrett> I think that helps that meme a lot.
Feb 02 07:24:27 <evands> why the heck do I have to use Carbon to do Apple Help?
Feb 02 07:24:41 <Mac-arena> evands: Hm?
Feb 02 07:24:52 <cbarrett> What's wrong with Carbon?
Feb 02 07:25:03 * cbarrett has been drinking the Carbon Kool-Aid.
Feb 02 07:25:07 <cbarrett> HIView!
Feb 02 07:25:08 <edr1084> evands: there was also a section on doing it in cocoa iirc
Feb 02 07:25:10 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: it tends to be verbose and less readable :P
Feb 02 07:25:15 <evands> AHGotoPage() and friends are Carbon fiends
Feb 02 07:25:18 <Catfish_Man> that's what's wrong with it :)
Feb 02 07:25:23 <Mac-arena> evands: Why do you need to use those?
Feb 02 07:25:30 <cbarrett> Catfish_Man: Think about the code I've been reading.
Feb 02 07:25:33 <cbarrett> Carbon is a step up.
Feb 02 07:25:36 <evands> Mac-arena: for showingthe help stuff?
Feb 02 07:25:58 <The_Tick> Mac-arena: screencasts
Feb 02 07:25:59 <evands> oh, good, it showed a blank page
Feb 02 07:26:03 <The_Tick> do we have that setup?
Feb 02 07:26:04 <Mac-arena> How about -[NSResponder showHelp:]?
Feb 02 07:26:22 <Mac-arena> The_Tick: Not yet. ep 3 needs to be stitched together, then I'll export it and put up all four.
Feb 02 07:26:27 <Mac-arena> Voice track is done, so I'm in the easy part now.
Feb 02 07:26:51 <The_Tick> cool
Feb 02 07:26:51 <Mac-arena> evands: You should be able to simply hook up "Adium Help" in the Help menu to FirstResponder's showHelp: action.
Feb 02 07:27:01 * durin42 svn sw's to the trunk url now that 1.0 is done
Feb 02 07:27:03 <evands> alright
Feb 02 07:27:05 <evands> i'll try that
Feb 02 07:27:06 * durin42 actually goes to bed
Feb 02 07:27:09 <evands> the way apple recommends didn't go well
Feb 02 07:27:21 <Catfish_Man> evands: I'm pointing 1.0b24 at a different appcast to test
Feb 02 07:27:25 <Mac-arena> I'm going by the stock application nib ;)
Feb 02 07:27:52 <The_Tick> djbsquared: durin42 where are those screenshots
Feb 02 07:28:27 <durin42> The_Tick: http://durin42.com/rnd/adium
Feb 02 07:28:33 <djbsquared> http://jzw.gotdns.org/Log_Viewer.png and http://jzw.gotdns.org/Log_Content.png have mine
Feb 02 07:28:46 <djbsquared> i can redo stuff if you want different
Feb 02 07:29:41 <cbarrett> I'm going to be using a fresh user account with a fresh adium.
Feb 02 07:29:44 <Mac-arena> Are you guys all done with the 1.0 changelog?
Feb 02 07:29:51 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: That's what I did for the screencasts.
Feb 02 07:30:31 <Catfish_Man> fuck, what's wrong with my xml here? dscoder.com/appcast.xml
Feb 02 07:30:43 <cbarrett> boo @ nonclickable URL
Feb 02 07:30:56 <cbarrett> l<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
Feb 02 07:30:56 <cbarrett> -^
Feb 02 07:31:21 <Mac-arena> It's a long XML file, as indicated by the l.
Feb 02 07:31:33 <Mac-arena> If it ended with f, it would be a floating-point XML file.
Feb 02 07:31:37 <cbarrett> XML Parsing Error: not well-formed
Feb 02 07:31:37 <cbarrett> Location: http://dscoder.com/appcast.xml
Feb 02 07:31:37 <cbarrett> Line Number 1, Column 2:l<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
Feb 02 07:31:38 <cbarrett> -^
Feb 02 07:31:39 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: shouldn't have a leading ?
Feb 02 07:31:43 <Catfish_Man> yes, I got that
Feb 02 07:31:46 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man: Shouldn't have a leading l.
Feb 02 07:31:50 <Catfish_Man> oh
Feb 02 07:31:52 <Catfish_Man> duh
Feb 02 07:32:30 <cbarrett> I believe a document with no XML tags in it is valid XML.
Feb 02 07:32:35 * Catfish_Man heaves a deep sigh of relief
Feb 02 07:32:38 <Catfish_Man> evands: we're ok
Feb 02 07:32:48 <cbarrett> which is why it says error on column 2
Feb 02 07:33:09 <evands> Catfish_Man: ok in which dept?
Feb 02 07:33:19 <Catfish_Man> evands: updating to 1.0 from bN
Feb 02 07:33:25 <evands> great!
Feb 02 07:33:30 <Mac-arena> xmllint --noout appcast.xml %/Volumes/RAM Disk(0)
Feb 02 07:33:30 <Mac-arena> appcast.xml:9: namespace error : Namespace prefix sparkle on releaseNotesLink is not defined
Feb 02 07:33:30 <Mac-arena> <sparkle:releaseNotesLink>http://www.adiumx.com/changelogs/1.0b14.html</sparkle
Feb 02 07:33:30 <Mac-arena> ^
Feb 02 07:33:30 <Mac-arena> appcast.xml:10: namespace error : Namespace prefix sparkle for version on enclosure is not defined
Feb 02 07:33:31 <Mac-arena> cachefly.net/Adium_1.0b14.dmg" length="18762699" type="application/octet-stream"
Feb 02 07:34:50 <cbarrett> how come updating from 1.0b24 to 1.0rc1 didn't work?
Feb 02 07:35:04 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: the b vs. rc logic I added is hosed
Feb 02 07:35:12 <cbarrett> >8U
Feb 02 07:35:21 <djbsquared> are we trying this again?
Feb 02 07:35:27 <cbarrett> unit testing >8U >8U >8U >8U
Feb 02 07:35:41 <djbsquared> Catfish_Man: or should i just grab the rc from the page?
Feb 02 07:35:54 <proton> attempting to parse human readable version numbers into something computers can compare is never a good idea
Feb 02 07:36:29 <Mac-arena> *ding* ep 3 is done. *exports*
Feb 02 07:41:25 <Mac-arena> Interesting. I didn't know Peter N Lewis was one of the founders of Kagi.
Feb 02 07:44:50 <evands> so the changelog is done?
Feb 02 07:45:18 <evands> could you add it to the changes.txt in svn please?
Feb 02 07:47:29 <Mac-arena> I don't know if it's done or not. Nobody's in the drawer now
Feb 02 07:47:38 <Mac-arena> But nobody's answered me the two previous times I asked if it was done.
Feb 02 07:48:52 <Catfish_Man> djbsquared: grab the rc from the page
Feb 02 07:49:01 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: it is, last I heard
Feb 02 07:49:02 <djbsquared> will do
Feb 02 07:51:21 <cbarrett> btw have we investigated using svn revisions or build numbers for our appcast?
Feb 02 07:51:40 <Mac-arena> The document is open at see://71.118.236.122/ if anybody wants to look it over.
Feb 02 07:51:53 <Catfish_Man> cbarrett: it would be relatively simple to do
Feb 02 07:51:58 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: Not sure what you mean. Our build numbers are SVN revisions, which is horribly doomed.
Feb 02 07:51:59 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: im opening it
Feb 02 07:52:11 <Catfish_Man> it could even display as x.y
Feb 02 07:52:14 <evands> does this include the changes we made last time?
Feb 02 07:52:17 <evands> i see at least one change offhand that's missing
Feb 02 07:52:23 <evands> since i deleted that 'major aim, icq, and .mac improvements'
Feb 02 07:52:23 <Mac-arena> evands: Yes.
Feb 02 07:52:36 <Mac-arena> Anything after I left to watch CSI was orphaned
Feb 02 07:52:37 <evands> and i'd added stuff under selected major changes
Feb 02 07:52:40 <evands> ah
Feb 02 07:52:55 <evands> oh, i have it here
Feb 02 07:52:59 <Mac-arena> Colin: You aren't planning to copy and paste that whole thing here, are you? :P
Feb 02 07:53:16 <cbarrett> No
Feb 02 07:53:30 <cbarrett> I ws pasting it to wc -l, though.
Feb 02 07:53:32 <cbarrett> 325 lines.
Feb 02 07:53:39 <cbarrett> that's a helluva change.
Feb 02 07:53:43 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: uh, that's missing a lot of changes
Feb 02 07:53:50 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: Coulda just jumped to the end.
Feb 02 07:53:54 <Catfish_Man> in fact, I'm not sure it has any of them
Feb 02 07:53:56 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man: You mean the changes you made after I left?
Feb 02 07:54:04 <Catfish_Man> no
Feb 02 07:54:07 <djbsquared> evands: cl didnt display when opening RC for first time
Feb 02 07:54:07 <Catfish_Man> ANY changes I made
Feb 02 07:54:19 <evands> Catfish_Man: i have them all
Feb 02 07:54:27 <djbsquared> i had to cmd+/ twice to get it to show
Feb 02 07:54:29 <Catfish_Man> evands: oh good :)
Feb 02 07:54:38 <Mac-arena> Ahahaha
Feb 02 07:54:38 <evands> djbsquared: i've seen that too once or twice
Feb 02 07:54:42 <Mac-arena> I think I know what happened
Feb 02 07:54:44 <evands> djbsquared: do you have list hiding enabled?
Feb 02 07:54:44 <cbarrett> me too
Feb 02 07:54:49 <djbsquared> evands: no
Feb 02 07:54:49 <cbarrett> but I'm on leper.
Feb 02 07:54:51 <cbarrett> So.
Feb 02 07:54:57 <Mac-arena> Everybody jump to the other document.
Feb 02 07:54:59 <djbsquared> borderless though
Feb 02 07:55:00 <evands> eh
Feb 02 07:55:03 <Mac-arena> I think it has the changes you're looking for :)
Feb 02 07:55:05 <evands> i've had it happen a couple times too
Feb 02 07:55:11 <evands> i don't know why
Feb 02 07:55:20 <djbsquared> hmm, the second doc should open in a tab
Feb 02 07:55:25 <evands> restart - does it happen again?
Feb 02 07:55:34 <Mac-arena> CFM: WFY?
Feb 02 07:55:45 * cbarrett listens to the new Bob Dylan single.
Feb 02 07:55:47 <djbsquared> evands: comes up fine
Feb 02 07:55:48 <cbarrett> It's really good.
Feb 02 07:55:50 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: I see the two changes I checked for
Feb 02 07:56:24 <Mac-arena> Yeah. I saved as to show dantekgeek, but I forgot that that disconnects it from the svn repo :)
Feb 02 07:56:34 <Mac-arena> I'll Save As over the one in my WC, which has not changed at all
Feb 02 07:56:50 <djbsquared> Do we want Xtras to emtnion receiving of MSN emoticons?
Feb 02 07:56:59 <Catfish_Man> yes
Feb 02 07:57:02 <Mac-arena> Not Xtras. Protocol-specific MSN thingy.
Feb 02 07:57:08 <Catfish_Man> er, yeah
Feb 02 07:57:09 <Catfish_Man> and it's there
Feb 02 07:57:30 <djbsquared> just thought of it because xtras mentioned one specific MSN emoticon
Feb 02 07:58:02 <cbarrett> I think I'm gonna have to get off IRC
Feb 02 07:58:07 <Mac-arena> Nice. Episode 3 is only 496 K.
Feb 02 07:58:09 <cbarrett> I need to accomplish something positive.
Feb 02 07:58:23 <cbarrett> I haven't gotten anything done today
Feb 02 07:58:30 <cbarrett> Not that Adium isn't positive, but...
Feb 02 07:58:38 <cbarrett> kinda wasted the whole day here at moco.
Feb 02 07:58:38 <Mac-arena> What's that old joke? "I think I've lost one of my electrons!"
Feb 02 07:58:40 <cbarrett> brb
Feb 02 07:59:03 <djbsquared> do we want to mention support for whatever AIM now accepts as a valid SN?
Feb 02 07:59:15 <djbsquared> since i believe that changed
Feb 02 07:59:43 <Mac-arena> "Our definition of a valid AIM screen name now matches AIM's"
Feb 02 08:00:06 <cbarrett> Fixed the definition of valid AIM screennames to match AIM's
Feb 02 08:00:08 <djbsquared> "Now accepts all valid AIM screen names"
Feb 02 08:00:31 <djbsquared> i dont know if there was ever a ticket for that or not
Feb 02 08:03:39 <Catfish_Man> have we added Help to the changelog? :)
Feb 02 08:03:45 <evands> I just did :)
Feb 02 08:03:51 <evands> second item under User Interface
Feb 02 08:04:14 <Catfish_Man> sweet
Feb 02 08:04:15 * Mac-arena considers adding "Help! I'm trapped in an IM client changelog factory!"
Feb 02 08:04:27 <djbsquared> heh
Feb 02 08:05:34 <Catfish_Man> evands: is * Folders are compressed automatically (#86) actually still the case? I thought we lost that
Feb 02 08:06:16 <djbsquared> evands: dont forget changed search default to Context
Feb 02 08:06:28 <Mac-arena> Also, #86 needs TRAC_SPAM
Feb 02 08:06:48 <Mac-arena> (Not sure whether I need to wait on that)
Feb 02 08:07:07 <evands> Catfish_Man: No, that's handled at the file transfer controller level
Feb 02 08:07:12 <Catfish_Man> ok
Feb 02 08:07:13 <evands> and is actually a replacement for hving folder transferse
Feb 02 08:07:18 <evands> having folder transferes
Feb 02 08:07:21 <evands> i give up.
Feb 02 08:07:26 <Mac-arena> Having folder transfers?
Feb 02 08:07:34 <Catfish_Man> tranverse folders
Feb 02 08:07:39 * Mac-arena invokes the POWER of DVORAK (and I nearly said invakes)
Feb 02 08:07:41 <Catfish_Man> with dual overhead b-trees
Feb 02 08:08:03 <Catfish_Man> vroooooom RICER FILESYSTEM TIME
Feb 02 08:08:19 <Mac-arena> Revver really ought to make a Best of The Show and put it on their front page. He's got to be their biggest earner.
Feb 02 08:08:43 <djbsquared> evands: i lied, just read over my wording instead
Feb 02 08:10:06 <Mac-arena> 75% done uploading ep 0 to Revver :)
Feb 02 08:10:24 <Catfish_Man> hm, new macnn forum theme
Feb 02 08:10:31 <Mac-arena> Yargh. We also have to wait for a human to screen it to make sure we didn't upload patent nonsense
Feb 02 08:10:48 <djbsquared> heh
Feb 02 08:10:59 <djbsquared> we dont "know" anyone there?
Feb 02 08:11:05 <Mac-arena> Not that I know of.
Feb 02 08:12:02 <djbsquared> file a support request?
Feb 02 08:12:15 <djbsquared> "We are really trying to get 1.0 out before people wake up... PLEASE?"
Feb 02 08:13:05 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: " * Consulted the Vorlon"?
Feb 02 08:13:06 <jmpp> hey guys, since you're reviewing everything 'n stuff... what about r18740 & r18741?
Feb 02 08:13:13 <jmpp> they went into trunk but not into 1.0
Feb 02 08:13:17 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: line 194
Feb 02 08:14:21 <djbsquared> jmpp: what were they?
Feb 02 08:14:34 <Mac-arena> djbsquared: We always do those sort of joke lines. :)
Feb 02 08:14:41 <djbsquared> haha
Feb 02 08:14:49 <djbsquared> this is what i get for not reading changelogs
Feb 02 08:15:02 <jmpp> djbsquared: r187410: "Report a bug menu item now points to the ReportingBugs wiki page. Fixes #6192. Thanks to mdippery."
Feb 02 08:15:04 <djbsquared> hell, ive been using svn for so long i dont even remember .89.1
Feb 02 08:15:27 <jmpp> seems like a simple enough change to go into 1.0 at this point in time..
Feb 02 08:15:46 <jmpp> djbsquared: and r18741: "Patch from Patrick Gibson to hide Add To List checkbox in the Authorization window if the contact is already on your list. Fixes #1235.
Feb 02 08:15:48 <Mac-arena> Hmmmm. I have a problem with patr1ck's patch
Feb 02 08:15:49 <jmpp> (p.s. Congratulations ;)"
Feb 02 08:16:11 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: minor or major?
Feb 02 08:16:23 <Mac-arena> What if you get a matching authorization request, so the Add to List checkbox is hidden, but then you get a non-matching request, so the Add to List checkbox should be re-shown?
Feb 02 08:16:28 <cbarrett> Anyone know how QS is doing this?
Feb 02 08:16:29 <djbsquared> jmpp: 741 might not make it, especially if Mac-arena doesnt like
Feb 02 08:16:29 <cbarrett> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=222190
Feb 02 08:16:44 <djbsquared> seems like the report a bug one should get in there
Feb 02 08:16:46 <jmpp> djbsquared: well, I'm just pointing out ;)
Feb 02 08:16:54 <djbsquared> yea
Feb 02 08:17:18 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: Compare name of volume of mainBundle bundlePath to "Quicksilver" (or whatever).
Feb 02 08:17:26 <djbsquared> cbarrett: download location being the .dmg, right?
Feb 02 08:18:11 <Mac-arena> There's a method somewhere in AIU to get the volume path. If nobody's changed it since I wrote it, you're welcome to copy it to Mozilla.
Feb 02 08:18:38 <Mac-arena> From there, get lastPathComponent and compare it to whatever the download location is supposed to be (perhaps written to a file in resourcePath by the build apparatus)
Feb 02 08:19:02 <Mac-arena> Did 18741 get merged to 1.0 branch?
Feb 02 08:19:06 <Mac-arena> Or is it still only in trunk?
Feb 02 08:19:09 <djbsquared> wouldnt download location be static? the mounted dmg should be the same always
Feb 02 08:19:20 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: jmpp seems to think its still trunk only
Feb 02 08:19:21 <Mac-arena> djbsquared: But Mozilla has multiple products. Camino, Firefox, etc.
Feb 02 08:19:22 <Catfish_Man> evands: hm, I believe the 'new included xtras' list is incomplete
Feb 02 08:19:38 <Catfish_Man> yeah, those aren't the new included ones, those are the new default ones
Feb 02 08:19:46 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: right, but you could hardcode the path seperately for each one
Feb 02 08:19:52 <Mac-arena> Evil.
Feb 02 08:19:58 <djbsquared> heh
Feb 02 08:20:11 <Mac-arena> cbarrett: r=evands?
Feb 02 08:20:16 <Mac-arena> http://trac.adiumx.com/changeset/18742
Feb 02 08:20:31 <evands> reporter i assume
Feb 02 08:20:51 <Catfish_Man> r=foo means "reviewed by foo"
Feb 02 08:21:03 <Catfish_Man> in both mozillaland and webkitland
Feb 02 08:21:16 <Mac-arena> Ah.
Feb 02 08:21:24 <djbsquared> i think cbarrett looked at the patch, then showed it to evands who may have been around that night?
Feb 02 08:21:36 <Mac-arena> evands: Was the LMX crasher ever fixed?
Feb 02 08:22:01 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: no, nor the leak
Feb 02 08:22:04 <Mac-arena> Or LMX-related, since I wasn't able to reproduce it in the test app.
Feb 02 08:22:07 <evands> Mac-arena: no, hasn't been
Feb 02 08:22:11 <evands> i still have that log
Feb 02 08:22:15 <evands> but haven't had a chance to revisit it
Feb 02 08:22:23 <evands> you made some changes to the types of some variables i believe
Feb 02 08:22:26 <evands> and those changes are in the repo
Feb 02 08:22:28 <Catfish_Man> libgaim is also still leaking all JIDs
Feb 02 08:22:33 <evands> but i haven't checked to see if i still crash
Feb 02 08:22:33 <Catfish_Man> and most other jabber personal data
Feb 02 08:22:45 <evands> jabber personal data?
Feb 02 08:22:57 <evands> probably my fault then since i rewrote all the get info code in libgaim
Feb 02 08:22:58 <evands> :\
Feb 02 08:23:04 <Catfish_Man> evands: nah, it way predates that
Feb 02 08:23:07 <evands> unless still predates
Feb 02 08:23:07 <evands> okay
Feb 02 08:23:08 <evands> cool
Feb 02 08:23:11 <evands> yeah, i didn't fix any leaks in the process
Feb 02 08:23:14 <Catfish_Man> I filed it ticket on it back in the <3k number range
Feb 02 08:23:16 <Mac-arena> evands:
Feb 02 08:23:17 <evands> i assumed all was right, because at least it wasn't rashed
Feb 02 08:23:18 <Catfish_Man> s/it/a
Feb 02 08:23:18 <Mac-arena> http://trac.adiumx.com/ticket/5908
Feb 02 08:23:18 <evands> crashing
Feb 02 08:23:42 <evands> oh hell
Feb 02 08:23:46 <evands> there is no "null status"
Feb 02 08:24:07 <Mac-arena> 12:54:14: Status message for <AIListContact:914a010 AIM.mann> changed ((null))
Feb 02 08:24:12 <Catfish_Man> evands: Leak: 0x03c1c400 size=1024 string '<b>Resource</b>: spark<BR /><b>Priority</b>: 0<BR /><b>Status</b>: Do Not Disturb: Do Not Disturb<BR /><b>Client</b>: Spark IM C'
Feb 02 08:24:12 <Catfish_Man> Leak: 0x03c6c600 size=512 string '<b>Resource</b>: Adium9CADFD55<BR /><b>Priority</b>: 1<BR /><b>Status</b>: Available<BR /><b>Client</b>: libgaim 2.0.0<BR /><b>O'
Feb 02 08:24:19 <evands> null was the set of AIChat objects wit that contact.
Feb 02 08:24:25 <evands> it was a log from AIStatusChangedMessagesPlugin
Feb 02 08:24:31 <Mac-arena> Aha.
Feb 02 08:24:34 <evands> i've removed the log, now, as it was noisy, not helpful, and misleading
Feb 02 08:24:35 <Mac-arena> Clear log messages++
Feb 02 08:25:01 <evands> Catfish_Man: woah, that doesn't exist until we create it.
Feb 02 08:25:12 <Mac-arena> evands: Really?
Feb 02 08:25:14 <Mac-arena> ;)
Feb 02 08:25:23 <djbsquared> as an aside, the rc appears to working as expected
Feb 02 08:25:25 <evands> Mac-arena: as opposed to libgaim creating it, smartass :)
Feb 02 08:25:32 <Catfish_Man> Leak: 0x08bdeef0 size=48 string 'Show Buddies Awaiting Authorization'
Feb 02 08:25:34 <Mac-arena> I very much want to use one of these computers wherein things exist before they are created. I understand that they are quite fast.
Feb 02 08:25:36 <Catfish_Man> Leak: 0x08d43e10 size=48 string 'johann.ollivierlapeyre@gmail.com'
Feb 02 08:25:58 <Catfish_Man> 79kB leaked :(
Feb 02 08:25:59 <Mac-arena> [moves mouse to the "Write report" command] *bing* "Holy shit! It's already written!"
Feb 02 08:26:08 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: i hear they complete things for you before you even know what you want to do
Feb 02 08:26:15 <Catfish_Man> evands: did you see the new SEE btw?
Feb 02 08:26:29 <djbsquared> tabs ftw!
Feb 02 08:26:48 <Catfish_Man> evands: ksuther and I are going to try to get them to contribute code back to the main psmtabs :)
Feb 02 08:27:06 <Catfish_Man> oh, and ASW is going to be contributing heavily to Sparkle
Feb 02 08:27:14 <djbsquared> hmmm, are we done with this change log?
Feb 02 08:27:22 <Mac-arena> evands: Did you consider simply importing <Sparkle/Sparkle.h> from AIAdium in order to use its own copies of SU*, rather than redefining them in AIAdium.m?
Feb 02 08:27:25 <Catfish_Man> evands: ha! nice bugfix time
Feb 02 08:27:34 <Mac-arena> djbsquared: I'm looking for a branch merge of patr1ck's patch
Feb 02 08:27:39 <Mac-arena> If it's not in branch, we can leave it alone.
Feb 02 08:27:44 <Mac-arena> And fix it later.
Feb 02 08:27:46 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: i dont think it is
Feb 02 08:27:55 <djbsquared> just search CIA for patr1ck
Feb 02 08:27:55 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: it's a temporary hack. I'll fix it properly later
Feb 02 08:28:02 <djbsquared> or for Patrick Gibson
Feb 02 08:28:04 <evands> Mac-arena: David added the SU*; I didn't know if they matched the sparkle ones or not, so i renamed them for clarity
Feb 02 08:28:28 <Catfish_Man> mhm
Feb 02 08:28:34 <evands> someone please update to 18789 and make sure that repeated get info attempts don't lead to anything Dumb happening
Feb 02 08:28:37 <Mac-arena> If they don't, it's most likely because the Sparkle ones are newer :)
Feb 02 08:28:49 * Catfish_Man ups and builds
Feb 02 08:29:01 <Mac-arena> "Convert .strings files to xml, which saves space." <-There's a double-take.
Feb 02 08:29:09 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: yea, im only getting the one commit with "Patrick Gibson" in teh description
Feb 02 08:29:12 <eharris_> evands: anything ever come of our hacking? :P
Feb 02 08:29:55 <evands> eharris_: I can make libgaim infinite loop 5 different ways, and i have some unique ways for AIM sign on to fail or appear to succeed without actually doing so
Feb 02 08:30:08 <eharris_> i guess that's something! :D
Feb 02 08:30:29 <evands> eharris_: i've still got the logging in place.. i haven't actually reproduced a cancel bug with it
Feb 02 08:30:34 <Mac-arena> OK, I'm up to recent stuph now. So patr1ck's thingy is definitely only in trunk and therefore can be worried about later.
Feb 02 08:30:34 <evands> it might be enlightening even thoug the fix itself doesn't work
Feb 02 08:31:11 <djbsquared> Lets decide about this change log
Feb 02 08:31:24 <djbsquared> if its done, lets call it so
Feb 02 08:31:55 <evands> cbarrett: doing any of those screenshots? I've got a couple so far that are good replacements
Feb 02 08:32:29 <cbarrett> evands: I havent gone home yet.
Feb 02 08:32:33 <evands> cbarrett: kk
Feb 02 08:32:53 <cbarrett> it will likely be late at night PST.
Feb 02 08:32:59 <cbarrett> 2, 3am
Feb 02 08:38:34 <Mac-arena> As opposed to now, which is not late at all.
Feb 02 08:39:11 <djbsquared> only for some
Feb 02 08:39:17 <Mac-arena> PST
Feb 02 08:39:30 <djbsquared> its still yesterday your time
Feb 02 08:39:40 <Mac-arena> So? It's still 23:39. That's late at night. :)
Feb 02 08:40:14 <djbsquared> yea, i guess
Feb 02 08:40:23 <djbsquared> im just so used to being surrounded by night people
Feb 02 08:40:38 <djbsquared> thats all university does, it puts you arond your kind
Feb 02 08:41:06 <evands> cbarrett: I've done one in the nice thumbnail form that would be optional
Feb 02 08:41:11 <evands> see http://adiumx.com/screenshots.php
Feb 02 08:41:14 <evands> not the first
Feb 02 08:41:16 <evands> it's messed up
Feb 02 08:41:17 <evands> but the tabs one
Feb 02 08:41:59 <Catfish_Man> evands: seems fine to me
Feb 02 08:42:05 <Catfish_Man> (build finished, just tried it out)
Feb 02 08:42:28 <djbsquared> Catfish_Man: did you upgrade to a modern gen machine?
Feb 02 08:42:39 <Catfish_Man> djbsquared: 2GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB ram
Feb 02 08:42:48 <djbsquared> ahh yes, i think i remember now... nice
Feb 02 08:42:56 <Catfish_Man> it's shiiiiiny
Feb 02 08:43:03 <djbsquared> yea, ill bet
Feb 02 08:43:06 <Mac-arena> evands: I would suggest a darker matte, if possible, so that the menubar doesn't blend into it.
Feb 02 08:43:20 <djbsquared> i need to milk another 2 years or so out of this
Feb 02 08:44:14 <Mac-arena> I love how we're showing off two message windows with different message view styles, like we actually support that.
Feb 02 08:44:23 <evands> Mac-arena: :P
Feb 02 08:44:26 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: we do
Feb 02 08:44:36 <Catfish_Man> open chat, switch style, open second chat
Feb 02 08:44:37 <evands> just requires having messed with your prefs and forgotten before taking a screen shot...
Feb 02 08:44:46 <Mac-arena> We have to, because the alternative is to allow switching styles on the fly, and we don't know how to do it. :)
Feb 02 08:44:56 <Catfish_Man> well, we do, actually
Feb 02 08:44:59 <Catfish_Man> it just costs memory
Feb 02 08:45:03 <Catfish_Man> so we don't do it
Feb 02 08:45:04 <Mac-arena> Right.
Feb 02 08:45:12 <Mac-arena> Although I wonder if we could do it using the log.
Feb 02 08:45:29 <Mac-arena> Remember where we started the log, then replay everything from that point into the newly-reconfigured message view.
Feb 02 08:48:39 <Catfish_Man> ya
Feb 02 08:49:42 <Mac-arena> evands: So rare that you're Available on any account.
Feb 02 08:49:49 <Mac-arena> Even rarer than you being online at all.
Feb 02 08:50:02 <djbsquared> and IRC
Feb 02 08:50:08 <Mac-arena> Well, that's the rarest thing of all.
Feb 02 08:50:11 <Catfish_Man> the moons have aligned
Feb 02 08:50:15 <Mac-arena> Truth.
Feb 02 08:50:20 <djbsquared> and prior to a release no less
Feb 02 08:50:36 <evands> Mac-arena: I'm really hoping that with 1.0 out I'll feel free to actually use Adium instead of hiding away to code it
Feb 02 08:50:45 <Mac-arena> Heheheh.
Feb 02 08:50:45 <djbsquared> hehe
Feb 02 08:50:48 <Catfish_Man> so what's the plan now?
Feb 02 08:51:00 <Catfish_Man> I'm intending to go beat another level of Halo if nothing's going to happen in the next hour or so
Feb 02 08:51:01 <Mac-arena> Yeah, being on IM definitely impacts one's ability to write software. Including IM clients.
Feb 02 08:51:15 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man: Changelog done?
Feb 02 08:51:24 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: wfm
Feb 02 08:51:33 <cbarrett> Mac-arena: I am going to try using Invisble more.
Feb 02 08:51:35 <evands> someone commit that bad boy then :)
Feb 02 08:51:36 <Catfish_Man> sorry, NOW it wfm
Feb 02 08:51:36 <djbsquared> i tend to agree
Feb 02 08:52:00 <Mac-arena> Looks like the videos are watchable, though it may be because I'm logged in
Feb 02 08:52:03 <Mac-arena> Give it a try:
Feb 02 08:52:06 <Mac-arena> http://one.revver.com/watch/159316
Feb 02 08:52:07 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: would you like to do the honors, since you hosted it? :)
Feb 02 08:52:08 <Mac-arena> http://one.revver.com/watch/159319
Feb 02 08:52:09 <Mac-arena> http://one.revver.com/watch/159320
Feb 02 08:52:14 <Mac-arena> Catfish_Man: Of course.
Feb 02 08:52:27 <Mac-arena> Those aren't to be linked since I don't have ep 3 ready yet (going to add overlay graphics to it).
Feb 02 08:52:39 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: all revert me to the index for revver
Feb 02 08:53:09 <Catfish_Man> evands: heh, bigass block of code is "warnings--"?
Feb 02 08:53:27 <Mac-arena> Weak. Ah well.
Feb 02 08:53:36 <djbsquared> whats your username?
Feb 02 08:53:39 <Catfish_Man> ooh, trac internal error!
Feb 02 08:53:41 <evands> Catfish_Man: see next commit :P
Feb 02 08:53:51 <Catfish_Man> heh, indeed
Feb 02 08:54:06 <Mac-arena> It's The_Tick's username, actually. He says it's intended for all Adium stuph, and hooked up to the Adium donation email.
Feb 02 08:54:12 <Catfish_Man> Mac-arena: btw, the inline quicktime on your blog is annoying
Feb 02 08:54:16 <Catfish_Man> it causes tab lag
Feb 02 08:55:17 <Mac-arena> What I should do, one of these days, is make it not show up on the front page of my blog.
Feb 02 08:55:25 <Mac-arena> You'd only see it by RSS or on the permalink.
Feb 02 08:56:49 <Catfish_Man> also, random thought based on #webkit: if Apple's porting dtrace, can we PLEASE have a valgrind port too?
Feb 02 08:57:09 <Catfish_Man> with objc support preferably :D
Feb 02 08:57:12 * djbsquared leaves changelog
Feb 02 08:58:14 * Catfish_Man does as well
Feb 02 08:58:41 <djbsquared> this seem like its it for a while?
Feb 02 08:58:53 <djbsquared> if it is, then i may as well part for the night
Feb 02 08:59:05 <evands> http://adiumx.com/screenshots.php
Feb 02 08:59:09 <evands> accounts screen shot updated
Feb 02 08:59:09 <djbsquared> i should be around probably 1300-1830EST for support, etc
Feb 02 08:59:12 <Catfish_Man> hrm... I bet if I turn vertex shaders off Halo will go faster, since the macbook has no hardware vertex shaders
Feb 02 08:59:36 <evands> djbsquared: help is in, changelog will be in... time for a crime spree
Feb 02 08:59:43 <evands> i mean, 1.0b25 which is really 1.0rc2
Feb 02 08:59:46 <Mac-arena> evands: Last call for 1.0 changelog edits.
Feb 02 08:59:57 <djbsquared> Mac-arena: do it. do it.
Feb 02 09:00:11 <Mac-arena> Alrighty then. :D
Feb 02 09:00:11 <evands> Sold!
Feb 02 09:00:12 <Mac-arena> (he just parted)
Feb 02 09:00:24 <evands> accounts shot look okay?
Feb 02 09:00:27 <djbsquared> yea
Feb 02 09:00:44 <djbsquared> i can wait for rc2
Feb 02 09:00:49 <djbsquared> as long as rc1 will pick it up
Feb 02 09:00:54 <djbsquared> well, i can wait for it either wya
Feb 02 09:00:55 <djbsquared> *way
Feb 02 09:01:02 <djbsquared> if it is coming soon
Feb 02 09:02:55 <evands> coming soon indeed
Feb 02 09:03:07 <djbsquared> alright, i can stay for a few more
Feb 02 09:03:26 <djbsquared> only thing for tomorrow is reading so i can watch superbowl and hillel
Feb 02 09:03:44 <djbsquared> whoa, pingage
Feb 02 09:03:50 <djbsquared> woohoo, committage
Feb 02 09:04:03 <evands> if I turn off the beta flag, does anyone know if anything will blow up?
Feb 02 09:04:08 <evands> do we even use it for anything anymore?
Feb 02 09:04:18 <Mac-arena> The debug window.
Feb 02 09:04:19 <djbsquared> well, we can always try
Feb 02 09:04:25 <Catfish_Man> evands: it should be off
Feb 02 09:04:29 <Catfish_Man> that'll turn off AILog, etc..
Feb 02 09:04:34 <evands> there used to be one in AIDebug.h
Feb 02 09:04:36 <evands> i mean
Feb 02 09:04:37 <evands> AIAdium.h
Feb 02 09:04:44 <evands> a second one
Feb 02 09:04:48 <evands> did I kill that? did someone else?
Feb 02 09:04:50 <evands> fine either way
Feb 02 09:04:52 <evands> just don't remember it :P
Feb 02 09:04:55 <Catfish_Man> not sure
Feb 02 09:05:00 <Mac-arena> A ninja killed it. That's how you don't know.
Feb 02 09:05:15 <djbsquared> ahh, the oft fabled code ninja
Feb 02 09:05:24 * evands searches the code
Feb 02 09:05:26 <Mac-arena> Indeed.
Feb 02 09:05:33 <Mac-arena> evands: Look for shuriken marks.
Feb 02 09:05:33 <evands> ah, there it is
Feb 02 09:05:37 <evands> AIAdiumProtocol.
Feb 02 09:05:50 * Mac-arena has another changelog joke idea: "Ironed out shuriken marks"
Feb 02 09:05:54 <evands> the only thing it changes is the crash reporter :)
Feb 02 09:06:06 <djbsquared> it was probably a product of beer induced coding spree
Feb 02 09:08:05 <cbarrett> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Feb 02 09:08:12 <djbsquared> hmmm, how did the clock and battery meter switch in my menu bar?
Feb 02 09:08:48 <djbsquared> cbarrett: just let it out
Feb 02 09:08:49 <cbarrett> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id